Sleep training

[Summerdays2014]

Hi,

I know this is a contentious subject but... Have you ever tried controlled crying with your child? Did it work? How long did it take? How old were they? What made you decide that you finally had to do it? Did you do it for naps as well as evening sleep? Are you pleases you did it?

Apologies for all the questions. I know lots of you will come on and say how cruel it is and how it will damage the child, but I'm now at breaking point with my 8 month old and I am thinking of trying this.

[Summerdays2014]

Writer that's great advice thank you (again) I've got into the habit of rushing bedtime as its so hard just to be screamed at. I'll make more of an effort now (though to be honest my husband has been putting him down since we started controlled crying as I just couldn't face it anymore.) fingers crossed we have another night where he sleeps through, that would be 4 in a row and totally unheard of. Also hoping the crying when we put him down subsides a bit now that we are on night 4.

[Writerwannabe83]

At 8 months of age my DS's sleep routine was:

Naps were 09.30-11.00 and 14.00-15.30.

Bedtime was 19.00-06.00

It was the Sleep Consultant that told me to work to that routine and she said that ideally, bedtime routine from start to finish should be about 45-60 minutes to really wind them down and make the transition from daytime to nighttime.

My routine used to be upstairs for his bath at about 6.15pm, into pyjamas and into his room by 6.35pm, then a 10 minute breast feed, into his sleeping bag, dim the bedroom (I.e main light off and night light on) then his stories and then into his cot.

[Summerdays2014]

That makes sense. I don't have any sort of routine at nap time or any set times of the day when he goes down (because he wakes at different times and his naps are different lengths every day!)

Bedtimes became such a nightmare we cut the routine drastically, he now has a bath in the morning and stories throughout the day as he was just screaming (suspect massively overtired)

I'll try a routine, and also putting him down at specific times.

Thanks writer

[Writerwannabe83]

The idea is to make his nap time routine as similar to his bedtime routine as you can so that he keeps that association of sleep.

So for his nap time you'd change his nappy in his room, put him in his sleeping bag, give him a bottle, cuddle and put down.

Also, does he have a story at any time?

My Sleep Specialists said that bedtime stories are an great sleep cue for babies and advised that before sleep time (bedtime and nap time) I read two stories and that when it comes to reading the second story make sure it's the same story each time. It doesn't matter which story of theirs you choose to read first but by always having the same second story they associate that one story with sleep time and it's another way to trigger an "it's time to sleep" reaction in the baby.

My DS's constant second story was about a gorilla that played the piano and I got sick of reading it three times a day (bedtime and two nap times) everyday but it seemed to work!!

Also, the soothing tones of your voice when reading to then will naturally have a relaxing effect on them.

[Summerdays2014]

Yes I'm so happy about the night, last night was the same, cried for 20 minutes then slept through until 6.15. I'm amazed it's working so well. To be honest I haven't even tried to put him down for the nap this morning. He's asleep on me with the dummy.

At night we change nappy, put night clothes on, into sleeping bag, 7oz bottle, cuddle, put down.

[Writerwannabe83]

Great news about the night!!

What is your routine in his bedroom before you put him down at night? Does he have a story before bed? Does he sleep in a gro-bag? Does he have a bottle of milk?

[Summerdays2014]

NOT worked once (sorry didn't check post)

[Summerdays2014]

So last night was great, he stirred a few times but didn't wake up until 6.50 am. Fantastic.

However, naps have bit worked once. He just screams for 30 minutes (according to the Ferber book that's all you give) then he will fall asleep immediately in th car or, as he is now on me with the dummy (which we haven't been using at night)

I can't understand why it's working at night but not during the day. I just want some time on my own during the day.

[Horsegirl1]

Co sleeping has been my sleep saviour . I was beyond exhausted with first 2 kids having been told babies should sleep in cots . Then had dd3 and followed my instincts and coskept. It has been a miracle and we all get tons of sleep

[Summerdays2014]

Well he fell asleep in 20 minutes tonight which is great. He's just woken up, but wasn't properly crying and has gone back to sleep.

He has been in an awful mood all afternoon though and he was fine all morning until we did the controlled crying for the nap. He was unhappy at being put down even for a minute and very whiney and crying. This is what happened last time I tried the CC and one of the reasons I gave up. Thanks for your support writer.

[Writerwannabe83]

It really was, I had the cheapest package which cost £90 and like I said, it saved my life.

It sounds like you're in a very similar to situation as I was and so you are definitely doing the right thing x

[Summerdays2014]

It does sound like a very similar situation, my son is grumpy in the day as am I. My husband and I are arguing all the time and he's come home to find me in tears on several occasions.

Thank you for your encouraging words, it's good to know that things can change and get better. I'm going to stick with it this time and hope we have an outcome like yours. I've also had a look at the sleep consultant you recommended and will be contacting her if things don't improve, it sounds like a good investment!

[Writerwannabe83]

Your problems sound very similar to mine.

By the time it came to doing the CC I was about to crack, I was beyond exhausted and my emotional mood was quite low. I dreaded every day of fighting with him to nap and then I dreaded every night where if I was lucky I got a total of four hours broken sleep, there was just no way I could carry on as things were. I had stopped enjoying my son, I was arguing with DH all the time, I was crying all the time and I knew I had to do something.

It was hard at first but at the same time I kept the end goal in sight and knew I had to just stick with it.

Babies getting sleep is incredibly important for their health and development so it's a good idea to hold on to that as well because ensuring good sleep is just as beneficial to your DS as it is to you.

By the time our CC training was complete and sleep issues had been solved it meant that in a 24 hour period my DS was getting over 5 hours more sleep than he'd previously been having and that is a huge difference!

He was a much, much happier baby for it and it saved my sanity and most likely my marriage too!!

[Summerdays2014]

Well, he cried for the 45 minutes so I did as you suggested and took him out for a drive. He fell asleep in minutes and slept for half an hour. Woke up as soon as the car stopped.

His sleep problems? Well... He can't fall asleep on his own. His naps are 30-40 mins max (longer if I'm holding him or in car) Nights change on a daily basis, sometimes we have an hour and a half of crying before he falls asleep, sometimes he wakes up every 45 minutes, sometimes every 2 hours, sometimes he is awake for hours at a time, I sometimes bring him into my bed to get him to sleep. He often wakes at 5 am. He has slept through so is capable.

I just feel so bad about him crying which is why I gave up last time. I felt as though he was more miserable during the day and that I had caused it by letting him cry.

[Writerwannabe83]

How did it go?

That's a good idea about taking a week off from all activities and just focusing on sorting out his sleep routines etc.

What specific issues do you have with his sleep?

[Summerdays2014]

Thank you coco, good to have another recommendation. I've decided that if there is no improvement by the end of the week we will get a sleep consultant. I also think I need to be more consistent with whatever I try, might take a week off from all classes and activities and carve out a proper routine for naps and bedtimes and feeds etc.

Decided to go for naps at the same time as nights so I'm currently sat outside his door. 7 minutes so far... Crying but not screaming or sounding totally distressed so will try for 45 minutes as writer suggested.

[Cocolocos]

We used one of the personalised email sleep consultant packages from the Baby Sleep Site and would highly recommend them too. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[Summerdays2014]

Thank you so much. If I can't sort it myself I'll be getting in touch with her. Much appreciated.

[Writerwannabe83]

Her name is Nicola Watson and she has a website and Facebook page called Child Sleep Solutions.

I emailed her asking for help and she emailed me back within a few days and then emailed me a questionnaire, a really detailed one about DS's routines during the day, the type of parents DH and I were, asking about the problems we had and what we'd already done to address them and then she wanted a breakdown of the last 5 days bedtimes and naptimes (I.e how long it took him to go to sleep, the times he woke, how long it took to get him back to sleep etc).

She then formulated a plan based on the information I gave and a few days after sending her the completed questionnaire she phoned me and it was a 2 hour consultation. She discussed all the different sleep cycles, the need for sleep, all the methods of sleep training (I think there were 6 options) and then we decided which one would work best for me. She then spoke about that one in depth in specific relation to DS and gave me a step-step guide as to what to do when he wakes at night. And as I said before, she completely changed his mealtimes, nap times, bedtime routines etc - it was a complete overhaul of my day. She gave fantastic guidance and it worked perfectly.

[Summerdays2014]

Thanks for sharing that advice writer. Can I ask which consultant you used? I have been thinking about using one myself.

[Writerwannabe83]

Yes, and she was excellent. She changed every aspect of DS's daily routine.

She told me that when it came to naps the longest I should leave him is for 45 minutes in total, obviously doing the CC intervals during that time, but if he hasnt fallen asleep then to take him out his cot. She told me to praise him when I picked him up, even though he hadn't slept, in order for him to associate being in his cot as being a good thing.

She then said that if he hadn't slept in his cot then to take him out for a walk in the buggy or a drive in car to try and get him to sleep (if either of those methods worked) just so he didn't get overtired even if he just had a small 30 minute nap.

I had to do this for the first few days but then he started falling asleep in his cot within the 45 minute time frame. Initially it took about 20-30 minutes (where he did get upset and I had to do CC intervals) but it quickly got to the stage where he'd then happily lie in his cot gurgling to himself until he drifted off.

[Summerdays2014]

Writer that's interesting re naps and early mornings. Was this what your sleep consultant advised? My sons naps are the same as yours were, usually 30 minutes and I'd love that to change. I think I'm going to find it harder to do the CC during the day as I'll be on my own...

[Writerwannabe83]

I did naps and bedtime at the same time for consistency. I didn't think it would be beneficial to treat him differently during day time sleeps than I do night time sleep - it sends mixed messages.

Prior to doing the CC he never had naps or if he did they were for 20-30 minutes maximum and only if I fed him to sleep. By the end of the 5 days not only was he sleeping through the night but he was having 2x90 minute naps each day which he self settled for.

In terms of the early mornings I was told to treat each wake up the same until the time comes when it is actually time to wake up. So, if you get up time is 7am and he wakes at 6.15am then you use the same CC technique you do as if he'd woken in the middle of the night.

[Summerdays2014]

Thanks to everyone who has replied, I was so nervous about posting as I thought I'd be judged and have everyone tell me how cruel it is.

So we went for it last night. It took 28 minutes for him to fall asleep, then he woke at 12. But no real crying and he went back to sleep without us having to go in. He woke at 4.50 am (not unusual for him to wake this early) could smell he had had a poo (that is unusual for that time of day) so changed him. He then cried for 30 minutes with us going in every 5. We gave up at about 5.40 and got him up for the day-not sure if this was the right thing to do? He fell asleep on my husband at about 6.40 for 20 minutes.

So, all in all a good night. Just unsure what to do about the early waking and if I should still be doing CC at that time in the morning.

[Cocolocos]

Best to start with nights only as it can be too exhausting to try to do it all at once.