Advice please - opening a Play Cafe

[LadybirdsPlayCafe]

Hi there, not sure if this is the right place to post but here goes...

I'm looking to set up a 'Play Cafe' in my local area and would really appreciate some feedback. I've read several posts about soft play centres but this is a little bit different and I'd be really keen to find out exactly what mums and dads want from such a café.

The plan is to open a café for under 4s with low level soft play, books, dressing up and toys. With tables in the middle so that parents can actually relax and have a coffee, confident that their child is safe and happy and in plain sight and that there are no larger kids running round. The café would serve good, healthy food plus cakes and a toddler pic n mix of healthy baby friendly foods. There would also be an outside area with toys and picnic benches and a party room for birthday parties and hired out to local child-related businesses.

I'm currently looking for premises of around 3,000 square feet but struggling to find anywhere that has enough parking (about 20 spaces) and with space for an outside area. I'm looking for an out of town location and would think about 30 children would be the maximum at one time.

Any advice or thoughts on any of this would be greatly received.

Thank you.

[albertcampionscat]

There's a very successful one near us that charges £3 for the soft play, but it's free if you spend £5 on food. It has a soft play area, a slope to roll toys down, books, dressing-up kits. The tables have chalkboard tops and there are little buckets of chalks on each one and the coffee/babyccino cups are made of sturdy ceramic rather than plastic. It works really well.

[Strawberrybubblegum]

We have a lovely soft play close to us, which is similar to what you describe. It's inside a park (in a pavilion), and has an enclosed outdoor area which they only set up in summer. The outdoor area has lots of climbing frames (the plastic little tykes type), rides ons and an awesome little train on a track. Indoors there is a bouncy castle, a big ballpit with soft play shapes, a couple of toy kitchens, lots more ride-ons, buckets full of toys like trucks, musical instruments etc, and a blocked off corner with soft mats for the little ones.

They charge £4.50 for the first hour, and then about another £1 per extra hour (you pay the remainder when you leave) . Under 1 year is just £1 for as long as you like. I'm happy to pay that amount for DD now (2.5 years), and it was fine when she was under 1. It felt like a big jump when she turned 1, and she was just walking but not really big enough to take advantage of all the bigger things, so I stopped going for a while. The baby area is a bit of an after-thought though. I would have been happier to pay if there had been a more pleasant area for babies (bigger area, more age-appropriate toys, not jammed in the corner).

I drive there about once a month despite there being other soft play places within walking distance, and it being inside a park with playground (we often go to the playground afterwards). The reason I go there is because it's a really pleasant, bright environment- I hate big, gloomy warehouse soft plays, and I hate noisy places (their bouncy castle is mercifully quiet). Also, if it's sunny, it's lovely for DD to be outside, and with all the rides-ons it does feel materially different to playgrounds - so the outdoor area is definitely a big draw.

One disappointment is that it's closed on weekends. I would go more often at the weekend than during the week if it was open - since 'mummy friends' are typically with their OH, so we don't go to each other's houses. I know it's probably inconvenient, but I'd strongly suggest being open weekends and holidays.

A soft play I went to once had an organised activity most days at a specific time in the morning,which I thought was fantastic. It was included in the price: if you were there at that time you could just join in if you liked. It was simple things like singing one day; craft another. It's a simple thing to provide (since it's just for half an hour at a specific time), and it's a big draw - especially in the holidays when most groups stop.

I don't usually stay for food. I'd consider it if there was something simple DD would eat, eg a cheese sandwich (for £1 or less since I'm never sure she'll eat it, and it's depressing to pay more and have it left untouched), and a sandwich or toastie for me. But I do wonder about the whole concept of not letting people bring food for the children. Another really lovely soft play cafe I've been to DOES allow you to bring sandwiches for the little ones. I have to say that I actually spend more on food there than at other places, since I can bring sandwiches for DD which I know she'll eat, so I'm more likely to stay for lunch and buy something for myself. If I can't guarantee that I can get something DD will eat, I'm much more likely just to go home and avoid that stress.

Proper homemade cake would definitely be a draw and proper coffee (all the coffee shop options like cappuccino and latte) is also something I'll pay coffee shop prices for.

[chillychicken]

So have you worked out how much you will need to turnover each week/month to cover your overheads? If you know that, it's worth buying copies of the accounts of similar businesses to check what they turnover and their profit. There is no point running a business if it's loss making.
My rent is £20k and my rates are £6k but I'm fully industrial so cheap as chips! I have 3 full time staff members, 2 apprentices and 1 part timer. My electricity is roughly £1600 a year because I'm very careful with what we use and we use gas heaters mainly. So with lowish overheads, I still need to clear £4k a week to make profit.
Most units to rent will either want 3yrs accounts, a years rent up front or a personal guarantee - can you do this? And do you have a written business plan to present to the bank for the start up loan?

I know how tough business is - I nearly lost everything 9yrs ago but we've fought back and we're doing very well now but it's been tough and I just don't want anyone to go through what I went through.

I believe a company called Rock Up do similar - it'll be worth checking them out. You can buy company accounts through companies house or company check. (You get free info on company check)

[LadybirdsPlayCafe]

chillychicken - not arsey at all, I appreciate the help!
I do have a business plan but it's not quite there yet. I'm about 85% there on the figures I would say.
I'm currently working on rent of £27k with rates of approximately £17k and 2 full-time members of staff, 1 apprentice, plus myself and my husband. Start up will be financed by personal savings, family investment and a small bank loan.
Advertising - not that much really. It will mostly be FB/Twitter and handing out leaflets offering free coffee on your first visit. My local newspaper is pretty rubbish and not read by many. I have good contacts with my local NCT and would advertise in their newsletter and at Nearly New Sales etc. Also planning a big launch party.
So far, the figures stack up although I certainly won't be making my fortune with it. I haven't found the right premises yet so figures will probably change.
One big expense that I'm struggling to estimate at the moment is heating and electricity. I just have no idea.

[chillychicken]

I'm a business owner and my unit is roughly 3000sq ft so I know the costs, therefore my post may come across a bit arsey so I apologise but I'm trying to work out if you actually have a business plan.

What is the rent on a unit that size in your preferred area? Have you checked out business rates? How many people will you require to staff it? Have you thought about how you will finance the start up costs - you're going to need soft play, tables, chairs, cutlery, crockery and a kitchen - that won't be cheap.
How will you advertise to your target market? Do you know how much this will cost?

You've probably already thought of this stuff but these are basic things so many people forget when they think they've got a great business idea. From personal experience, I need to invoice out roughly £4k a week to make profit. Granted, it's a completely different business but it's worth checking that the figures stack up.

[bittapitta]

The place I'm thinking of offers sibling discount too obviously. Everywhere has to.

Whereabouts roughly are you? Posters could suggest similar places for you to visit for inspiration.

[LadybirdsPlayCafe]

BeansinBoots - Yes, that is the kind of food I'm aiming for. My 3 year old is really picky so if I was out I'd order macaroni cheese whenever available because she's guaranteed to eat it! I am planning to do healthy and not so healthy, plus a blw/toddler 'pic n mix' type thing where they can choose so many items for £2. Say raisins, cheese cubes, breadsticks, mini banana muffin, blueberrises etc. Then what they don't eat, you take home. Plus mini pizzas, small sandwiches, pasta dishes etc.

I definitely wouldn't want people bringing their own food without a very good reason (i.e. allergies). My first thought is that I would try to 'manage' it somehow. Maybe get them to join the loyalty card scheme so then when they signed in, it would pop up to say that the child was allowed to bring food in. Not sure what I'd do if everyone said their child had allergies though!

[LadybirdsPlayCafe]

Lots to think about there!

Bittapitta - I think a pricing tier could be a good idea although I think a lot depends on how you view things. Your local soft play sounds cheaper in theory but with my 15 month old and 3 year old it would cost me £10 whereas it would be £6.50 at my café.

NurNoch - It is a pretty affluent area, I would say. The similar venture I mentioned earlier is in a similar area to mine and charges £9.50 for me and my dc. And it always seems pretty busy whenever I go. That to me is very pricey and I only go every month or couple of months because my two love it. I think the downside of this place is that it's a long way from me, the food is okay but not great and the staff are really not very friendly. The upside is that there are no older children, it has a good layout so you can see your children all the time and it's really clean.

There's also a local (ish) gymnastics club that has a under 5s session every morning which is £5 per child and £4 for siblings. It has no café, isn't particularly clean or quite frankly as safe as it could be, and it's packed all the time. I used to go there a lot with my first but it's not somewhere I could easily manage with 2.

I'm obviously not explaining myself very well. A café 'with playgroup style toys' really isn't what I have in mind. I just don't really want to give all my ideas away on a public forum What I'm aiming for is kind of the ultimate child-friendly, parent-friendly, breast-feeding friendly, clean, safe, fun café around! So for this, I think you would have to pay a bit more than your average nugget n chips, dirty, germ-ridden, high rise soft play centre. I appreciate they're not all like this, but the ones near me are. I think someone asked why they're not upgraded - I don't think they really care to be honest. Much of the issue is cleanliness, a friend went to one recently and saw a toddler be sick in the ball pool. They closed it for 5 minutes, wiped a few of the balls with a wipe then opened it again. And I don't mean spit up, but properly 'probably has a virus' type of sick. They have plenty of custom with older kids so why change.

I am also aware that there is someone in my area trying to do the same thing as me, so I have some competition!

[ShelaghTurner]

Oh and the big draw for me, free wifi!

[ShelaghTurner]

I drive half an hour to go to a fabulous play cafe. One room with a closed off outside area. Tables are dotted around the room so you're right in the middle of the action although I rarely see my dd as she's off playing! It has a small bouncy castle which is plenty big enough for half a dozen children, sectioned off baby area, kitchen, dressing up, books, small ball pit, about 4 of those little tikes cars plus other small ride ons. Lots of dolls and prams and a table with happy land type toys on it. Outside are a couple of little houses and other toys can be taken outside.

It's for under 5s but I have taken my 7yo with the owner's permission and she either stays with me and draws or plays with her sister although she knows she's not allowed on the bouncy castle or ride ons. She's fine with that.

Entry is £3.75 for over 1s. Food wise usual range of drinks, paninis, sandwiches etc and kids toasties, picky bits (plate of cucumber, carrots sticks, hummus, toast fingers, cheese etc) and usual Pom bears and kids snacks, home made cakes, fruit etc.

I love this place. Have been going since my 7yo was a baby. It's changed hands twice in that time, last time was about 2 years ago and the current owner is fab. It's welcoming and friendly and if you get it right, people like me will be there all the time!

Sorry for waffling, hope that's some use! Good luck :)

[Smooshface]

I think this sounds lovely! We have popular local place that is cafe with soft play inside an aquatic place - kids love feeding the fish!

[BeansInBoots]

If your looking to avoid people bringing their own toddler/ baby food, you'll have to advertise well that you do food suitable.

By suitable I mean a selection of jars and pouches, and preferably (particularly for £5 entrance) a selection of homemade puréed food, with baby spoons, and maybe a 'plate' deal for blw..

I would automatically take food with me for ds who has a cows milk protein allergy, and would be very unwell from cross contamination..

My 2 year old is also currently only eaton beige food.. So maybe a mix of healthy and not?! I know a few friends who are having the beige battle, and that's not one I'm willing to fight in a cafe as a treat!

Sounds great, though!

Are you in an affluent area? There's no way I could afford 6.50 for my 2.5 year old and a 10 month old, then coffee food etc..

[bittapitta]

Oh and they say it's "under 7s" but in reality there are mostly babies and toddlers. They open later than you are proposing though, good idea as it's hard to find stuff to do with toddlers between 3-6 and people are often tempted then to buy kids tea there. I wouldn't go somewhere with my toddler that closed at 3, I prefer soft play when there are no playgroups on and not at nap time so after 3.

[bittapitta]

Could you consider one more tier of pricing for the entrance fee? Local soft play to us charges 0 for under 1s, £4 for 1-3 year old, £6 I think for 3-5 year old. In holidays/half terms/weekends they make it "peak" and add a pound.

[NurNochKurzDieWeltRetten]

Sibling rates, childminder rates and annual passes are all good ideas - definitely £8 for 3 kids is more palatable than £15! It still sounds expensive to me for what you're offering (we pay not much more for access to a sort of play barn the size of a football stadium, with an indoor "lake" with electric boats, an electric go cart track, trampolines, bouncy castles, a "volcano" climbing structure, a 3 story play frame, a large under 6 area, ride ons and a manned electric train ride as well as a large cafe area which serves good food... You know your local market though - I do think people would need to be quite affluent to be happy to pay that kind of "cover charge" for a cafe with playgroup style toys aimed at the very young on a regular basis, rather than very occasionally when the weather is terrible etc.

[LadybirdsPlayCafe]

Sorry, should have made the pricing a bit clearer. It would be £5 for the first walking child and £1.50 for siblings. I am planning a loyalty scheme/annual pass but I'm still looking at the options there. I would also have special offers for quieter times and a special childminder rate.

NurNoch - I understand £5 is quite pricey. My two also walked at 9 months so I know what it's like to go for a picnic with friends and spend the whole time chasing my child while my friends sit happily on the grass with their babies staying put. That is one of the reasons why I would use a place like this (and pay £5). It's hard to find somewhere safe for toddlers to explore when they first start walking and this would be somewhere that had something for the less mobile babies to do too.

[NurNochKurzDieWeltRetten]

I agree £5 per child is far too much - my eldest walked at 9 months and I wouldn't have appreciated paying such a vastly higher amount than the other antenatal group members whose babies were all still crawling - they'd have dribbled on just as many toys!

Also child minders might be a potential market - they won't even becharging £5 per child per hour and won't pay out more than they are earning and more again for food gladly.

I used to be a childminder and had an annual pass for soft play - my regular mindees had them too as it was 5 mins walk from my house. It meant I went a lot (it was really nice and obviously in term time it was automatically under 5s during school hours). Having a pass meant I often suggested it as a venue when meeting friends so I brought them business that way.

Would you do annual passes? Need to be priced right to be less than the cost of entry once a week to be tempting, but they also nearly guarantee people coming back frequently and spending on food and drink, and bringing new business.

[grabaspoon]

I go to my local play cafe because it serves good tea and cake and the kids can play - we generally go 2/3 times a week (m/f); today it was shut and we had to go to another coffee shop and it was stressful with 3 toddlers. HOWEVER there is no way I would pay £5 to attend.

[Chips1999]

I think I'd avoid books and dress up stuff as that involves more parent involvement...maybe plastic/wooden baby toys that are easy to clean, and maybe just some dressing up hats. Colouring pencils, crayons and paper would be good for those that didn't want to go in the soft play area straightaway.

The main thing to me is cleanliness of toys/equipment, and easy baby changing area that smells nice

[NickyEds]

There's a really nice cafe (just normal cafe) in our small town and they have a notice on the door saying that unfortunately they can't accomadate buggies-I think it's just a round about way of saying no small children. When I first saw it I thought they were nuts as there are so many mums locally...until I went in on a rare child free day. It was packed with everyone else! And they all came, had something to eat and drink and left. Then I looked at me and my friends (before our dcs were walking). We show up and immediately take up loads of space with high chairs etc, our ds take up an adult sized space and have a tea cake, we all sit around drinking coffee for ages then leave a bit of a mess compared with the child-free. I was surprised any cafe owner wanted us!!

[FeelingSmurfy]

Reminds me of the book - Just Another Manic Mumday - was quite a good easy read and, you never know, you may take some ideas from it!

[petalunicorn]

We had one locally with no entrance fee and lots of customers totally took the piss with bringing their own food for the kids and then making a total mess everywhere. I definitely think an entrance fee is the way to go - however I think you should offer a sibling discount. I would want to go to a cafe like this but had 3 preschoolers and wouldn't have paid £15.

The one locally had trouble with getting full and would put messages on Facebook saying they were full, no more please. I think the trouble was large NCT groups coming in. You would need to think about how to manage that.

[oobedobe]

One of the best indoor play areas I ever saw was in a mall. Just a small area say 3 metres x 7 metres it was walled in round the edges and inside everything was padded, a toy boat, car, tree, mushrooms, tree stumps - no loose toys. The kids used to run around inside and love it, parents would lean over the walls and watch. Google Tuff Stuff playground to see examples.
It was so simple and great for imaginative play and burning off energy on a wet day.

[beatricequimby]

I have known two cafes with play areas to close. No entrance fee so Mums sat fot two hours nursing one cup of coffee. So I think an entrance fee is a must but a think five pounds for a walking child will put off people with more than one child. People with a one year old and three year old are not going to pay a tennet plus food and drink unless it is a special treat or your cafe is in a very wealthy area. Tbh I think there is a reason lots of softplays are a bit grotty. The owners are not making enough money to invest in a refurb.

[oobedobe]

I am in Canada and two similar cafés went out of business. The first was more of a trendy cafe/pizza place with small play area - lots of high end wooden toys really only good for under 3s. The second was more play area with cafe. One half of the room was for playing one half was cafe. It was for age 6 and under (makes sense to have a wider age limit then people will be your customers for longer). The had some lovely high end play equipment like this www.cedarworks.com/?src=GL&ser=74&orig=SR&mt=B&ag=74d&qw=indoor_playsets&gclid=CO3q-OXZusYCFQ-PaQodHjgJgQ
Look at the indoor play structures.
She also had a train table, ride on toys, big dolls house, playhouse, a bubble machine that would go on every hour for 10 mins. She was very busy in the winter but no business in the summer months. It is a hard mixture to get right and be profitable year round.