Children so naughty I feel like leaving my family

[kp2014]

This is my first time to Mumsnet, but I literally do feel so desperate and feel unable to express my feelings to anyone honestly so here I am. I'm hoping no one will be able to trace this thread!!

To cut a long story short, I really do feel like leaving my family, I've started feeling this way regularly and honestly don't know what to do about it. All of the joy has gone from being a mum/wife and I'm left with a home life which is literally tearing me to shreds and dragging me into a pit of despair.

On the surface I should feel great, I have a decent home, a good job, a funny and affectionate husband and two great daughters (aged almost 3 and 4 years) however, I just feel like escaping everyone and I feel horrendous for thinking this way.

Every evening my children won't go to bed - now I'm quite realistic, I know having kids is hard but my two scream, cry, kick walls, make themselves sick for approx 3 hours every night. To make things worse they literally scream my name over and over, walk around the house gagging and blubbing mmmuuummmmyyyyy (they're both doing it now)! The hours feel like days and I am left crying most evenings out of sheer exhaustion.

I have tried all of the below for at least two months, maintaining calm, but every single tactic has not made even the tiniest impact:
Reward Charts
Punishment for poor behaviour - I follow through with threats.
Shouting/telling off
Smacking - yes, I know, not hard but a smack on the hand - they just laugh and I'm not prepared to hurt them, even a little, so it seems like a pointless endeavor.
Ignoring is where I am currently at, also not helping at all, in fact the 3 hours episode every night is now currently more like four – they’re really trying their hardest to break me!

My husband is very involved with the kids and is here most nights at bedtime, he has far less patience than me and his stress makes me feel worse, although he helps out as much as me so I’m lucky in that area. We have two sets of grandparents nearby but no one ever helps us/offers to babysit even when they see how hard our kids are. I don’t know why, perhaps because they think our kids are horrendous. We've both expressed our utter despair and no one helps (even though they help one of our siblings with a child, every week almost). We don’t have anyone else who we could leave our kids with so we’ve not had even five minutes on our own without the kids in nearly a year. I feel like we’ve forgotten who we are without the kids which scares me.

Other than the bedtime nightmare our 4 year old has the worst attitude in the world and answers back constantly to the point of rudeness - the kind of behaviour that you would expect from a teenager.

Despite these things they are both good girls, they're not spiteful, they get loads of attention (hubby and I both have approx 2 days per week with each child - we take them out, on holidays, read books etc - so they get everything they need).

I do not know anyone who has the awfulness every night that we have, the three hour screaming fits are starting to reach nearly four hours - this has been happening for around two years so not a phase.

Anyway, I am now at the point where I just don't want to come home anymore despite my work also being quite stressful – this is the only ‘free’ time I have (I work 3 days per week). I feel like hubby and I only see each other with screaming kids in the background, the atmosphere is awful. To make matters worse, husband wants sex if I even come near him (so cuddles are out of the question as he then ends up getting grumpy that I'm not giving him any affection). So my relationship is pretty strained also if I'm honest. The impact of constant screaming is affecting everything. If the kids shut up for a second I feel like I’m in the dog house for not ‘putting out’ quite frankly sex is the last thing on my mind. Despite this, I still manage to ‘put out’ once a week approx. to avoid the nagging from the other half.

I feel like I just don't like anyone anymore, I get pretty much no pleasure from being around anyone. Even when the kids are good I find it hard to enjoy them because I know that they'll be ar*eholes in a few hours. I’ve felt like this for ages and am worried where my feelings will take me. I don’t think I’m depressed, I feel ok at work. I’ve just had enough of everyone. Due to mine and hubbys work pattern there is no way that I could take any time for myself but to be honest, taking time out would maybe make me not want to come back and/or make the family situation any better.

I don’t know what help or advice I am after, I just feel like I’ve been holding my feelings in for so long that I need to vent them someway. I’ve glossed over it with friends but not said quite how bad it is – I’m scared that saying it out loud will set wheels in motion and make things unfixable.

Thanks to whoever reads this – sorry it’s long – it’s nice to know I’ve kind of expressed where I am!

[kp2014]

Thanks everyone, there's loads of great advice here. I'm going to try the gps and if that doesn't work then in list some help! Parenting classes are also a good idea, so I'll see what's about locally.

I actually got a phone call from my mum tonight randomly so balled my eyes out and told her how desperate I'm feeling. At one point she mentioned that I should remember I had time on my own and lived a lot before having the kids (I was 28 when I had the first) I though that was particularly caring of her! Anyway, I said I wanted her to babysit and will give her a date tomorrow. Figured this is a case of you don't ask, you don't get.

I'll also talk to hubby, feel a bit bad, he's a very good man, I think he only wants sex to feel close to me, he is very affectionate, that's one of the things I love about him, I think we're just wired up differently when it comes to stress relief!

Cross your fingers for a good gp!! Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond, being a parent is so hard sometimes! I hope that you get an easier day tomorrow too peppajay!

[EugenesAxe]

A friend posted the following advice article on FB not that long ago - you could give it a go?

A Better Bedtime Routine

I agree with these things that have already been said:

1. Let your DH leave during bedtime, as I don't think his stress is helping at all.
   

1. Tell your children how they are making you feel.
   

I really hope you resolve this soon.

[LOLeater]

Glad you posted OP and the advice sounds pretty good.

This situation will end. You are going to end it.

Divide the children. DH takes youngest who is dosed with piriton and drives. You take elder child and read your book outside her room. You do not get in discussion. You simply repeat "you are very little. You don't know the rules yet and I'm the mummy. You need to be in your room."

Put music on? Try a new lamp? New duvet cover? Make the room comforting and calm. All the time, it's just you and this elder one. No laughing, no excitement just calm.

Refuse to make eye contact. Just keep repeating the same words. And distance yourself in a way. Your baby is pushing boundaries and you are very much in control.

I tell you something OP, you're a great mum. In this situation I would have gone mad.

But you have to end it now. You have to get your life back. I really think you will act to stop your children destroying all family life in the evening. It's not right and you know it. Good luck.

[stargirl1701]

OP, this sounds horrendous!

I would try to exhaust them with physical exercise. Swimming would be best if you can but even a bike ride might help. I would also split them up if you can. Try not to put both to bed at the same time.

You also need a break. A night a friend's house or in a hotel? With

[Vijac]

I really recommend reading the book calmer, happier, easier parenting. It has so many good ideas that really work to make children better behaved. Even better if you listen to the audio than read the book. So, have you tried splitting them at bed time, so you each put one child down in desperate room. Try to make it a fun, calm, loving and snuggly time, don't appear to be trying to rush. Good luck, I'm sure it will get better from here on in. Don't wait for a g parent to volunteer, ask them to babysit for a night while you go out.

[Theyaremysunshine]

Glad you have a bit of a plan OP, and that you talked to your mum, even if she wasn't overly sympathetic!

Good luck with the gp. Do book a double appointment so you have plenty of time. Just because there is a good reason for you feeling so low, doesn't mean you don't need help with coping strategies for your own mental health.

Keep posting. If you can find support in real life, all the better, but otherwise at least let it out on here.

[CuttedUpPear]

This sounds like an awful situation for you. You have my sympathy.
I thought I'd pitch in with the thing that used to work for my DS, who was terrible at bedtime.
He knew that he would get 2 story books read to him, which he loved. Each one took around 6-8 minutes to read.
If he misbehaved at bedtime he would lose one of the books. Occasionally he lost the privilege of both - which ensued in much screaming but I stuck to my guns and the next night he would be better.

It gave him something to look forward to at bedtime. it started off at just the one book but I had to increase it as he lost privileges so often, he would then have no motivation for going to bed at all.

He would always have a story tape as well. He has separation anxiety and bedtime was part of it.

He's 17 now and goes to bed just fine!
Good luck OP.

[GSLJK76]

Kp14 did you get this sorted? I know this was a long time ago but I have read this and I am going through the same thing. Please, if you have any advice I'd love to hear from you.

[Southeastlondonmum]

Just wanted to post in solidarity. We were having dreadful bedtimes with our 6yo and 4yo (far too late and behaviour appalling as a result). For years we put up with it thinking it was norm and tried all the usual techniques. About a month ago we cracked after the 6yo spent a weekend screaming like a toddler. We did the following- regular wake time, regular earlier bedtime, no reading in bed (ie reading is done in our room before going into theirs, long quiet extended cuddles until sleepy). They are down a full hour earlier and it's incredible. Hope you find solutions soon

[MorrisZapp]

I gave up. DS won't sleep til 10pm and trying to get him down earlier is pointless. We've accepted we won't have evenings until he leaves home. He's six.

[Cantseethewoods]

I think you and your DH have to make a pact to completely ignore it for a week- as in, don't even acknowledge it. Take it in turns to go out if required. Just sit there on the sofa, reading while they scream and wail.

[Cantseethewoods]

Also I don't do a 'lights out' thing with mine. They can leave the light on and draw, play, read in their rooms as long as they want. That may help.

[Iflyaway]

Poor you, it sounds horrendous.

I swear by Bach Rescue Remedy. For all 4 of you!

You can get it in Boots, Holland & Barrets etc.

[AgentProvocateur]

ZOMBIE THREAD

[Cantseethewoods]

Oh bollocks! Ah well, hopefully the OP sorted it by now.

[MorrisZapp]

Kids are probably out voting as we speak

[MissHavishamsleftdaffodil]

So sorry you're having such a crap time! Some very good advice here.

I'm a big believer in breaking habits and patterns, young children get stuck in them. If you can figure out the trigger or point that the hysterics and dramatics start, it's easier to change the situation and prevent them spotting their cue to kick off.

Divide and conquer can be really useful: will GPs take little one for a few nights? Or as pp says, can dh take the little one out in the car and drive them to sleep so you can get the older one sorted and into better sleep habits? I've had twins so totally get the tag teaming and one escalating the other, and the whole competing for mummy thing. Just having one child to deal with might give you more insight into what's going on.

What is the howling your name about? Is there something they actively want you to do, or want from you? Can you use that thing they want as part of the routine/something to be earned? For example yes, you won't leave the room if that's what makes the older one kick off, BUT you will be sitting in the doorway reading, not talking, no eye contact, no interaction. Sometimes a bedtime schedule of pictures or a list to tick off can help show exactly what will happen and what point it is time to lay down, go to sleep and nothing else will happen until morning.

You sound so at the end of your tether about behaviour generally that this is probably part of the bigger picture rather than an issue with bedtime alone. Your local children's centre may know of a local 123 Magic or Solihull Parenting course, both of which I've heard really good things about from parents. Your 4 year old's future school may also have a family liaison person who may also know of these courses or even organise them for parents. Your HV if they're good, may also know of courses, opportunities or some HVs have nursery nurse support to help parents manage behaviour at home.

First things first, you need a break. Can GPs or siblings or anyone have the girls overnight so you get a night off to catch up on your sleep and have an evening where you're not full of adrenaline and stress? This will pass. Two this close in age can be really hard work.

[MissHavishamsleftdaffodil]

Bloody hell Zombie!!! [anger] [anger] [anger]

[Iflyaway]

Well, a zombie thread that comes up always has something that someone can relate to and take away from it.

Problems in life don't have a "sell-by-date"...

[Momlife]

I know how you feel. I have 2 sons, 7 and 4, I work 3 days per week but it's shift work so I either do the school run or pick up. It's absolutely exhausting. I think because I'm so tired all of the timw it effects me more so. I know how I should react to things, or should I say not react, but it's so hard. My eldest has always been challenging,just last year I had to sit in his room every night ignoring his shouting until I could gradually move out and sit by his door. I would be in there for 2 hours and this lasted 2 months! The amount of times of running away came into my head was unreal. But one day it just clicked with him, I told him enough was enough and it was over. I followed advice from an expert! I always imagine myself having three children, but with how hard work my two Are, I thibk it would be a very bad move. I can't cope as it is. I ask my husband to help out with homework when I work until 9.30pm but it doesn't get done properly so I have to redo it anyway. I end up arguing with my son because he doesn't want to do it, and he does struggle, but every night is a battle. They were so naughty tonight I put them to bed at 6.30pm. I like knowing other people have difficulties and it's not just me. So many people put on a front and make put having children is fantastic, yes it is but it's hard blooming work!

[LoopThehoop]

zombie thread
Fgs

[LoopThehoop]

zombie zombie fucking zombie thread

[Wallywobbles]

Can you describe your bedtime routine exactly?

E.g. When mine were small they had supper with me at 7ish. Then upstairs and they never came down again until morning.

Bath for quite a while until they had wound down.

Pyjamas

Into one or others bed for story depending on whose turn it was.

Big kisses and cuddles and lights out.

Or that was the plan.