Can't believe I'm posting this but can someone talk to me and controlled crying

[ElBombero]

My DS is 5 months old. He has never ever slept well, not once slept through the night.

He's BF but for the past 3 weeks has had 1 bottle of formula at night. I then feed him throughout night. His pattern at night is so so bad, I get up anything between 8-15 times a night. He cries and the only thing that will settle him is my breast, he mainly takes 2-3 suckles then drops back off. So he is waking for comfort yes?

He won't take a tummy. I've tried leaving him for a few minutes but he gets himself (and me!) in a right state. Spoke to HV today, she said I should look into controlled crying as she thinks it would work for him...

Any advice?

[waterrat]

Also agree about own room - but to be honest it's all just part of a package of getting them to stop feeding so often - when you are tired you are feeding at every little stir or wake up - that's why I became so miserable co sleeping - I realised that as soon as I stopped ds was sleeping much longer because I was not responding to every minute whimper and he was not waking up

You don't need to leave a baby to cry in order to reduce wakings - you can do more gentle methods - it really doesn't all come down to co sleeping and feeding all night long - although they are fine as options if you are happy with them

I think it highly unlikely a 5 month old has tongue tie or reflux if they have been fine until now - lots of babies get into the habit of feeding a lot ! No need to assume some major drama before attempting to cut night feeds down

Only on mumsnet is wanting to reduce feeds from 8-15 a night down to 2 or 3 not seen as totally normal

[FlyAwayToMalibu]

OP is baby actually feeding 8-15 times a night, yor just using boob as the only way to get back to sleep?

[ElBombero]

Thanks everyone he is in his own room. Has been since about 3 months (due to toddler waking him up with her night interruptions.

Do you know completely out of the blue on weds he only woke up twice. Yet last night was 12.

Yes for maybe 2 of the visits it's to feed rest of the time just 2/3 suckles on me then he drops off.

I understand what your saying about trying other things, just hard in the early hours when there crying n everyone's in bed, feeding him is a sure fire way of getting him settled again. Making a rod I think

[HelenHen]

It really is so much easier to give in! 12 Times a night though? How do you all cope? I'd be a mess! How long do you leave him before going in? Even now, at 18 month's, sometimes ds cries out in his sleep. We have a video monitor though so I can see he's still asleep, just a bad dream! Sometimes he even sits up, looks around a bit, then falls over back to sleep lol, it's really cute!

If you're serious about stopping it, you're just gonna have to pick a method and stick to it. Otherwise waiting for him to stop, there's no promises it will work.

[ElBombero]

Just feel torn really, I am shattered, the family are suffering but what's if it's the sleep regression / growth spurt? keep thinking "let's just see what tonight brings..." If there's still no chance he will have been bad for 3 whole weeks, so will take the advice re deciding on say 3 feeds max a night other wake ups try n sooth in other ways...

[Honeysweet]

Controlled crying works you know. A lot less angst all round.

[TheGreatHunt]

Controlled crying works you know

Not for every baby it doesn't. I've read many threads and spoken to people for whom it hasn't worked.

[poocatcherchampion]

I agree with what waterat said.

my nearly 6mo is the same as you op but seems to be improving and I have deduced a complicated zoning of the nights - Ive one feed before midnight, one between then and 4 and one after that. mostly otherwise I let her grumble in her cot while I snooze. if she was yelling I'd probably get her and snug or feed. it made me feel a bit more in control of the whole thing although I doubt she read the schedule

[ElphabaTheGreen]

Controlled crying does not work. Not for everyone. Having tried it to the Ferber/Millpond/She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named letter on three separate weeks-long occasions with my DS, he is still not even remotely close to ever having slept through the night at 20 months old. No other sleep training method has ever worked either, and I've tried them all. I'm like Moaning Myrtle on the MN sleep boards

I have no advice, OP, except to say that my DS was also at the 8-15 wake ups a night stage at five months, and still was at eight months when I went back to work full time in a new job, and it continued until he was well past a year. He's now down to 'only' three or four wake ups a night, but still occasionally likes to recall the old days with hourly wake-ups . I do remember that four/five months was when I was at my deepest, darkest stages of desperation and misery about his sleep but you do toughen up, honestly. I'm still holding down that job despite no sleep, and it's subsequent effects on my cognition, and am mad enough to be 14 weeks upduffed with DC2. This too shall pass.

[HelenHen]

Well whatever you do or don't do I hope it gets better for ya soon! Cc really can be tough. Dp judged the heck out of me during that period... But lucky I'm great at ignoring him too lol. One day though it just fell into place and life became wonderful and he has since, of course, admitted that I was right! It is, of course, possible that it just won't Work! Tbh though the only people I know who it didn't work for either weren't consistent or gave up too soon. That's just the ones I know though, all kids are different and few of them follow the rules!

[AcrylicPlexiglass]

I think controlled crying often works very well for the sort of baby who wakes after 30/40 minutes, goes ballistic, has a couple of suckles, goes back to sleep for another 30/40 minutes, wakes up and goes ballistic, has a couple of suckles and so on and so on ad infinitem. That is a big old clue that you have a baby who just doesn't know how to settle to asleep and wakes at end of every sleep cycle. Ime, there is no pain-free way to teach a baby of 5 months ish plus how to sleep through the end of one sleep cycle and into the next and no pain-free way to live with it either as the sleep deprivation is a real stressor for everyone. Anecdotally I would say that babies who haven't learned this skill at 5/6 months are not going to learn it for many months more unless they are taught. I also think they get so tired that they are very unsettled whatever you do and it's often no better in terms of their distress levels (and yours!) if you co-sleep/pick up put down/pat shush, none of which will address the problem of your baby not knowing how to get themselves from one sleep cycle to the next.

It's quite a different situation from those who are waking at night hungry, having a proper feed and going back to sleep satisfied and settled. In that case i would definitely not go for cc as it's totally possible for a baby to need a night feed or two at this age. I finally tried controlled crying with my youngest when it occurred to me that my baby was crying anyway and it might as well be controlled as otherwise. I think she was about 9 months and I wish I'd done it earlier!

[ElBombero]

3 x I've been in since 20.30

Tried stroking face, speaking softly that it's bed time, taking him out cuddling (he just starts talking then) so each time has resorted to a "feed"

[ElBombero]

Thanks acrylic, helpful post

[AcrylicPlexiglass]

Good luck, Elbombero.:)

[beachesandbuckets]

I am going through a similar situation with my twins (6mths) now -though not so many time per night, you have my heartfelt sympathies. Both waking up for night feed at 3am, I have automatically put them on boob as terrified of waking 2 older dcs. But they weren't really taking much milk and it was a habit I think. I have sought guidance from my health visitor who has suggested putting them in own room, giving them a cuddly toy (age appropriate) to use as a comforter (instead of my boob!), and to use the shush/Pat approach to get them back to sleep. I started weaning them too at 5.5mths and they are hungry in day and scoffing 3 meals per day plus yoghurt and b/feeding in day - the quantities they are having means they cannot possibly be hungry at night. Its worked this week. Its taken 30 mins to get one back to sleep but have stuck firm and not offered a feed and they have both self settled finally (tho took me ages to get back to sleep :( ).

I used controlled crying on older 2 dcs and it worked a dream, both slept through at 12wks and both excellent sleepers even now. Like another poster said, its not like you walk out and leave a screaming baby for an hour alone, its 2 mins, 4 mins etc so they wear themselves out. I wouldn't rule it out if you get desperate. Personally co-sleeping doesn't work for me, I am so shattered I fall into a coma when asleep and wouldn't trust myself not to squash a baby, plus I would quite like to share a bed with my Dh (we have precious little time alone as it is and our relationship has taken a battering through the baby years) and not a 2 year old! Good luck x

[pinksummer]

I keep banging on about her here but Andrea Grace has saved my sanity. My 6mth old would wake 8 times a night, it was a good night if we went every 2 hrs. He would need to be BF to sleep. I knew he wasn't hungry as it would be pouring out of the side of his mouth.
3 weeks ago my sanity was rapidly diminishing. Met with Andrea Grace and while things aren't perfect they are a whole lot better. By night 4 he went from 7-2am.
She believes in no more boob at night. Yes there is some crying (I had NEVER let him cry before!), but I never left his side and if I wanted to pick him up I could.
Let me know if you want more info.

[beachesandbuckets]

Please can I have more info pinksummer!with 4 dcs and being on mat leave I can't afford to see her, but some top tips would be much appreciated, in case this shush/Pat fails...

[ElBombero]

Mmmmm not sure if I agree with this pink? What if they need a feed? Growth spurt etc...

[pinksummer]

She convinced me that at 6mths he is able to go through the night. If anything me feeding him is kickstarting his kidneys and raising his blood sugar so in effect waking him up. Plus just to look at him he's a very healthy 15lb something at last weigh in.
You follow a very religious bedtime. Doesn't matter whether that's at 6pm or 9pm each evening. Just go with how tired they look. Bath, boob (in room), book (in room), lights on. Where as previous I did bath, book, boob, all dim lights downstairs. You must put them in their cot awake. Use a nice calming phrase 'night night tommy, night night. Over and over and over again.
If they need it a pat or back rub to go with it. If they are screaming blue murder go ahead and pick up if you feel that will calm them. By the 2nd night for me I picked him up once and he stopped crying immediately which is when I knew there was nothing wrong with him, so back down he went.
My longest stint was 50mins, clearly not crying the whole time, just grumbles with the odd screaming fit, I just carried on with my calming phrase. Stick with it, do not give in with the boob otherwise you've wasted your time and let the baby cry for nothing.

Each time he woke, 1st night 5 times, 2nd was 4 I would go in, use the phrase, give a pat. The time I was with him would quickly go down, by night 2 I'm in there 20mins.
I saw an improvement every night. By night 8 we went from 7-5am. Quick pat, then up at 6am. Anything before 6 you treat as a night waking.
In the morning go in, open blinds before you do anything. Give a very chirpy Good Morning Timmy! Take him downstairs and let him feed from you for as long as he likes. Do not feed him in his room or in your bed. You need to show that you are starting the day.

Like I said, it's still not perfect. Yesterday I was up with him for an hour at 3am, but I suspect that is teeth. I didn't pick him up or feed him as I knew food wouldn't fix it and would put me back to square one. I just get very close to his face if he gets worked up. Obviously you know your own baby and last night I changed a nappy and gave calpol so you know in your own mind you've done your best for him to keep him comfortable.

After night 5 or so you should be able to pop baby down for bed, say your phrase and walk out the door. I can now do that, I hear him gurgling away and within minutes he's out like a light. It's improved his day napping as well.

[waterrat]

I promise that if you decide to tackle the frequent wakings before midnight you will see better sleep all night.

Your baby does not need a boob in the mouth 3 times in 45 minute every night - that is exhausting for you!

Just focus on the hours between bedtime and 11pm so that you don't feel overwhelmed. What we did was dp went in when the baby woke - and sat with him stroking/patting but didn't pick up - I think picking up if you don't plan on feeding is confusing for them.

Ds cried for 15 mins and fell asleep -dp was with him comforting him the whole time - this happened once more in the evening - the second time he fell asleep he stayed asleep for six hours - incredible as he had been waking all night long ....

It's not cruel to teach a baby gently that when they stir in their sleep they are safe and happy to stay asleep rather than cry out qondering where the boob is - I was losing my mind with tiredness and now I can see I was making it worse by responding to every tiny cry with a feed

[beachesandbuckets]

Thank you pink for taking the effort yo write down the advice, have cut and paste'ed it on my phone, and will definitely alter my bedtime routine so babies go down awake. My daytime nap routine is non existent (which means I never get a rest in the day) and I feel this may help here. Thank you again x

[vichill]

My bf dd wakes this frequently 1-2 nights a week, but I can honestly say i am never tired because we co sleep. If I had to get up, walk over to a cot, feed, settle and nod back off myself I would be a zombie. I couldn't do cc. Training a baby not to bother seeking comfort from you seems wrong to me.

[beachesandbuckets]

After 6 mths of broken sleep and feeding, both my twins have slept through the last 2 nights after I started the shush/Pat technique a week ago. They are having 3 good meals a day plus breastfeeds. Before I used to just automatically put them on the boob when waking at night. Even if co-sleeping, you are still woken up when they first shout out. I've had 8hrs unbroken sleep, feel human again, and babies have had a good nights sleep. Next step move out of spare room back in with Dh and less grumpy with older dcs as not so tired.

[minipie]

I agree with everything Acrylic says. It sounds like habit and the inability to get from one sleep cycle to the next without bf. CC will teach that.