Car seat dilemma

[Cymru82]

Can anyone recommend a forward facing car seat. My baby is 9 months, so we're starting to research seats.
Any recommendations grateful

[goblindancer]

I think it depends what journeys you take. if you always drive around London in

[ERFmama]

lilyaldrin: there is a significant difference in rear facing car seats indeed. But since cost seams to be what most people complain about regarding ERF seats, that is why I only mentioned the affordable range.

I do however always recommend buying Extended Rear Facing car seats that are PLUS tested approved. As you can not get any safer. Those are seats that have undergone the viorous swedish PLUS test which measures the strain on the neck. No forward facing car seat will ever pass this test (yes they have measured), and not all rear facing car seats do either, though this is a test that costs quite a bit, so not all manufacturers send a seat to have it done.

A short description of all the tests a car seat can go through:
www.carseat.co.uk/Child-car-seat-safety-tests/Explaining-tests-and-approvals

Explanation of the PLUS test:
"Child restraint systems, Plus Test

The Plus Test is a voluntary test, inheriting thoughts about important protection of head and neck from an older national child restraint approval. In a Plus Test, the forces subjected to a child's neck in a frontal collision are measured. The Plus Test is an additional test carried out on seats designed for the Swedish market. This form of testing is not conducted anywhere else in Europe and is not included in an E-approval. An E-approved child restraint system meets all the statutory requirements for sale in Sweden, but a seat that has passed the Plus Test gives the child additional safety. A seat that has passed the Plus Test is E-approved for installation in every seat row in a car. Such seats ensure that child passengers are not subjected to life-threatening high neck forces in a frontal collision.

The Plus Test has been developed through collaboration between VTI, NTF (Swedish National Society for Road Safety), Folksam, SIS (Swedish Standards Institute), Volvo and representatives of manufacturers of child restraint systems."
www.vti.se/en/vti-offers/crash-safety-testing/child-car-seats/

[ERFmama]

lilyaldrin : That is correct. No ERF seat has done poorly persey. Just that some do better then others, and yes, it will always be safer then a forward facing car seat. Experts agree.

goblindancer : does this mean that you would chance an infant in a normal forward facing car seat from birth just because you are driving around town? ...ofc not. You use an infant car seat because you know it's safer. This doesn't change.


Cymru82 : sadly there is no where to rent no. But you should try and take thousands of brits word for it. :) Not to mention the Scandinavian countries that have this as the norm. :)
You should always have a car seat first fitted in your car to see if it fits and what fits your child the best.

Feel free to have a look at the FB page: Facing - The way forward
Tons of pictures and lots of discussion and factual information and help.

Personally I blog about ERF over at : erfmission.wordpress.com/

Feel free to have a look around, tons of pictures and stories.

[ERFmama]

It's obviously called: Rear Facing - The way forward .
Seams to have missed the first word. haha

[MyNameIsKenAdams]

£5 per week saved from the day the baby is born will result in enough saved to afford an ERF seat by tge time they need one.

[ERFmama]

Good point MyNameIsKenAdams!! :)
Also if you buy a seat that is from birth, you will have a seat that lasts for 4 years average. :)

[KongKickeroo]

OP we are in exactly the same position (well, DS is 10 months old) and after lots of research and great help from the Car Seat section of MN (yes, there is one!) are going for the BeSafe Izi Combi seat. It can rear-face or forward-face until 4 years, so you have the option (we plan to use it rear-facing). It has excellent reviews and crash test results. They are easily available, John Lewis and Mothercare sell them.

Here you go: www.johnlewis.com/besafe-izi-combi-x3-isofix-car-seat-black-alcantara/p231445982

They are expensive but then I remind myself of what I spent on DS's pram and it puts it into perspective, given that a Bugaboo isn't likely to save his life If I couldn't stretch to the BeSafe, my second choice would have been the Britax Two-Way Elite which is considerably cheaper, smaller and lighter, but very safe and also faces both ways.

Hope that helps a bit.

[KongKickeroo]

aargh

//www.johnlewis.com/besafe-izi-combi-x3-isofix-car-seat-black-alcantara/p231445982

[BrandNewIggi]

I changed ds1 out of his infant carrier at 12 months - with ds2 I realised this wasn't necessary and he was in it till about 15 months - I just kept checking the weight/fit.
I do wonder - I have erf in our car, but currently trying to get a seat for granny's car - just for about a once or twice a year holiday. How do I use a ff one in her car now I know the risk of death is greater? I can't ask her to fork out £220 - even thinking of not going now!

[MyNameIsKenAdams]

Could you use yours in her car?

[NoraRobertsismyguiltypleasure]

We have just bought a Kiddy impact shield seat, a very highly recommended forward facing on 'Which'. Our DD is 14 months and only just grown out of the rear facing. Keep rear facing as long as possible. Unfortunately Which don't recommend any ERF seats, so although I wanted to go that route I decided instaed to go for a highly rated forward facing.

[BrandNewIggi]

I need to go on the plane to see her - don't think I could manage it on the plane and scared of it going in the hold and being bashed.
Generally we travel there in our car but if going alone/winter I would fly.
(Sorry for hijack!)

[KongKickeroo]

BrandNew we also have family abroad. How about a cheaper ERF seat like the Joie Stages? Go halves and it's only £65 each based on current price in Mothercare. It wouldn't be my choice for a main seat but I too could not justify spending £200 plus on a seat that's only used a few times a year. I can't quite explain my logic for that but I'm sure there is some economics term for quantifying risk and cost and low probability high impact events

[BrandNewIggi]

Thank you, I'll look into that! Alternatively, maybe I could just make her stick to 30 mph for the whole visit!

[MarlenaGru]

My DD was rear facing until 4 and loved it. She was often car sick so I used to het my DM telling me I should turn her round as it was clearly making her sick. Thing is she is in a booster now and still gets sick so I am glad I stuck to my guns!
She loved it other than her motion sickness. She could see for miles out the back window and often slept in it quite happily. We had the Besafe Izi Combi. It was the only one available easily back then but we will be using it for our second child next year too.

[BrandNewIggi]

I think if they have always been rf then they won't mind. Might be harder to switch over if used to ff.
I've remembered my dm has a Britax seat that can go rear facing too, though only to 13 kg - must weigh him and see what weight he is now! and out him on a diet

[BananaPie]

This is from the kiddy website, but cites ADAC:

"In the past few weeks, the discussion on the advantages and disadvantages of rearward and forward-facing child car seats has cropped up again and again. The current ADAC, Stiftung Warentest, TCS and ÖAMTC tests clearly show that our test winner Kiddy Phoenixfix Pro2, even significantly beat rearward-facing child car seats in terms of safety. According to ADAC, the Kiddy seat shows “very minimal critical loads in front and side impacts”, however, the rearward-facing models offer only “minimal” or “average critical loads in side impacts”. The forward-facing child car seats also receive better ratings in terms of comfort for children and parents. This is why the Kiddy Phoenixfix Pro 2 received the test result ‘Very good’ in the safety and use/ergonomics criteria, whereas the other seats received only ‘Good’."

[RearFacingToddlers]

lilyaldrin It is absolutely true that not all ERF seats are as good as each other. A seat that only costs 130-150 pounds is not the same as a rear facing seat of higher quality that is installed in a different way and has passed the Swedish Plus Test. But those seats cost 300-400 pounds. And while they are amazing seats they are not within everyone's reach.
The thing to remember is that any rear facing seat will always do a better job of protecting the child's head and neck than even the most expensive forward facing one.
I think what Joie have done is make Extended Rear Facing available to lots more people by bringing more affordable seats to the market. And that can only be a good thing.
MrsDexter Yes the Stages got a poor side impact rating. There are a few things I would like to say about that.

• The way that seats like the Stages are installed will give them a little more movement than Isofix seats or tethered ones. So most infant seats that are belt installed and seats like the Britax First Class Plus perform in a very similar way.
  
• The Stages got an excellent frontal crash result. Frontal crashes account for 75% of all crashes and rear ones are only 20%. Of course side impact should not be ignored but most car seats are designed mainly for frontal impact.
  
• It got a good result forward facing in the crash test. But all that that test does is place a bar 55cm away from the child's face and crash the car. If the head doesn't hit that bar the seat passes. But that tells you absolutely nothing about the effect that that crash had on the child's neck. In a crash at 40mph there is an extremely high chance that that child has broken its neck. But the head didn't strike the bar so they give you the impression that it's a great seat!
  
• Also please be aware that European Standard ECE R44/04 does NOT include a side impact test at all. So there are lots of seats available in the shops that haven't been through any independent testing so there is no way of knowing how good or how bad their SIP is.
  I think that the Joie Stages has quite unfairly suffered a lot of criticism. There are other seats that don't do well in the Which? tests but no one bats an eyelid. Other seats are recalled for various reasons and it goes unnoticed. I personally think that the Stages is a great seat. The cheapest rear facing seat is still better than the 'best' forward facing one. If you have 350 pounds to spend then by all means get a BeSafe or an Axkid. But if your budget is no higher than 150 then the Stages is by far the best option. It will offer your little one far far more protection than a 250 pounds forward facing seat.

[RearFacingToddlers]

For anyone who is either already using an impact shield seat or is considering buying one please have a look at this:
www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=370280416449147&set=a.282375891906267.1073741829.282362311907625&type=3&theater

[RearFacingToddlers]

www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=370280416449147&set=a.282375891906267.1073741829.282362311907625&type=3&theater

[RearFacingToddlers]

I just noticed that I said 20% of all crashes are rear ones. I meant to say side ones. Sorry.

[Cymru82]

Thank you for your helpful advise x

[Cymru82]

However despite all this advice I'm still non the wiser as to which seat to get. So therefore my DD is still happy in her maxi cosi carrier seat. So will keep her in there for as long as I can. In the meantime I will keep looking and thinking (and saving!) Didn't realise this would be such a difficult decision. :-/

[BrandNewIggi]

Certainly fine to keep her in it for the next while.
With ds1 we moved on to a britax first class, ff, as it seemed a safe seat according to my research. With ds2, I've learned about erf and have got a britax two-way elite (online from incar safety centre as not near a store) for, iirc, £220. We are very happy with that, ds2 has never been ff so he has no reason to object and likes his new "big" seat. He moved into it at about 16 months.

[Bulldozers]

It's probably been said but my dd rear faces and can see far more than if she was FF. She can see out of our back window and the side windows, she also has a mirror.

FF she'd see out of the side window and the back of the front seat.

Sorry if this is a repeat.