OMFG just found out DS has spent £1700 on ipod game!!!

[splodge2001]

It's all in the title really. Still shaking, It's been going on since June> I hadn't noticed because the spending was masked by some unusual purchases over the last few months. Am livid! I've deleted 'Clash of Clans' banned the Ipod, grounded him, asked him to think of ways he can pay us back (he won't be able to). What the hell do I do? Can I get my money back. Do I report it as fraud? After all, I didn't allow it to happen. Help!

[wannaBe]

it's apple's responsibility to ensure that there are tools in place to prevent excessive spending, such as parental controls, passwords and such. It is not their responsibility if clueless idiots let their children loose with their credit cards on iDevices which they know the passwords for.

Would you give your child a credit card and give them unlimited access to a toy shop? no? well this is no different.

And I wouldn't consider spending on apple as being a strange spending patern - lots of people own apple devices and buy games, apps, songs, albums, songs, plus it didn't happen in quick succession - yes if no activity suddenly sparked into £1700 overnight this would trigger an alert, but this was a sustained patern of spending and no reason why it would or should be seen as suspicious.

The only person responsible for the fact the op is £1700 out of pocket is the op for A, not supervising her ds more closely, and B, being so blasé with her finance that it's seemingly easy to spend that much of her money without her noticing.

[IAlwaysThought]

You DONT have to be tech savvy, there are loads of step by step 'how to' guides for people to follow. You just have to put a bit of effort into it.

For example, if you don't know how to set up an iPod so that it is safe for a child to use then just type how do I set up an iPod for a child. into google... It's not rocket science

[nipersvest]

chrisbenedict - what a daft thing to post

[SirChenjin]

So glad you got some of your money back OP

[GwendolineMaryLacey]

No it isn't Apple's responsibility. Here's a thought. Be tech savvy, take responsibility and if you're not sure about this stuff, don't hand it over to your kids. and hey, teach your kids the value of money. It's not hard. Stop hiding behind other people.

[Chrisbenedict]

It’s Apples responsibility to not let this happen on their OS. Kids don’t understand the value of money and not every adult is tech savvy. Most people probably have never heard of micro transactions or even know you could spend inside an app.

[Flitwickmummy]

Oh jeez!

That is awful, I hope you are able to get the money refunded.

[Stropzilla]

OP to answer your question about why the purchases didn't trigger at Amex. Amex have an alert for out of pattern spend. If you go from spending £300 to 3? for example that's massively out of pattern. A couple of hundred a month extra is nothing. Repeat spend at a restaurant the card holder owns could flag up for money laundering. ITunes is very common on repeat spend so it wouldn't be flagged.

Not interested in placing blame here. I do think Apple were good to refund any at all given it was over a period of time and usually these things are mentioned straight away. Hope your son is learning to respect other people's money now.

[Floggingmolly]

On what grounds did Apple refund "some" of the charge, op? What proportion did they decide wasn't your responsibility, and why?

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

Er, yes you have!

If you think you haven't then maybe you should re-read your posts.

You have blamed Apple and American Express and you have obviously hoped and expected that they would bear the financial loss rather than you and your husband.

[splodge2001]

weird - I actually haven't blamed anyone else but I guess things do get misinterpreted on mumsnet.

[IneedAsockamnesty]

The only way that could be fraud would be if the child stole the credit card and entered the details themselves

Not true, if you do not have actual consent to use someone else's card its still a crime to do so even if they make it really really easy for you.

[FiscalCliffRocksThisTown]

Glad you got some of it back!

As to banks, I have always found Barclays to be quite good about being proactive if they spot a change in your spending pattern ( they call you) and in our case, with DS spending 650 in a month, they put the money in my account within a few days. Then I had to give it back as Apple refunded me. Nice to know they would have paid if Apple would not have.

[Prawntoast]

If the child had their own apple account and the parent tied it to their credit card it can't possibly be fraud can it? You've effectively given the child the credit card to do with what they will. I surprised Apple refunded anything to be honest. The only way that could be fraud would be if the child stole the credit card and entered the details themselves.

[GwendolineMaryLacey]

The Apple ID is the key to the phone/iPad. If a child has their own then they can basically do whatever they like on that phone including overriding the PIN. That's if they don't just guess it. Then they can download what they like, google what they like and watch what they like. I'm astounded that anyone would let their child have total control over their device. And to tie that up with a credit card beggars belief.

[Hopasholic]

Of course the alarm bells should have been ringing at Amex for all those £.69p transactions.

It never occurred to me to blame anyone apart from ourselves and my son as I said up thread. Hopefully once you've had a bit of time you'll realise that sometimes you have to hold your hands up and admit you've cocked up big time. Blaming everyone and wanting to slap other posters ain't gonna help.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

OP I'm not sure what you think the credit card company should have done?

The onus is on you as a consumer and a parent to have your own checks in place, and to be responsible for what you and spending, and what your child is doing when you give them access to your credit card via a piece of technology.

If your finances are too complicated to manage, then simplify them. If you can't handle dealing with your company accounts then get an accountant. My accountant costs me less per annum than your DS spent on this game.

The only people responsible here are you and your DH, and all this casting around for people and organisations to blame is just making you look daft.

[BadgerBumBag]

Glad you got some money back and are finding ways to teach your son the scale of what he's done.

I am confused however why you are so offended that people have expressed an opinion on what happened. You started a thread hoping for support which you got, mixed in with other reactions. This is conversation, debate, and essentially what happens when you make something public and open to debate.

You cannot filter people and I have always loved that about mn - the perspective other people's (sometimes quite extreme and unexpected) opinions give me.

[Pennythedog]

I'm glad you got some money back splodge.

I don't think it is wrong for kids to have their own Apple account but obviously it's not a good idea to let them have their own account linked to your credit card.

Anyway, lesson learnt and all that. Hopefully this thread will encourage others to tighten up their restrictions too.

Btw, I checked my old iPhone which is connected to wifi in the house and it said there had been three failed password attempts on the restrictions page. Definitely wasn't me! Glad to see they couldn't get in though. I actually suspect my husband. He'll never guess my password though! It is completely random.

[optimusic]

Wow, you are wondering why the cc company didnt trigger anything, when they have billions of customers, yet you couldnt be arsed to bother checking. If thir system is poor, where does that leave your system? not exactly what you would call a decent one.

Ipads are not dangerous. the people who use poor controls on them are. Ffs you used your dob. You. set up an account in your sons name using your/your dh credit card details.


For someone who claims to be tech savvy, you have failed big time, and still are blaiming everything else for your cock up... You are still not accepting that this is your household fault, because all errors came entirely from your childs parents... Stop blaiming others, start taking responsiblity and realise any 'addiction' has come from lack of parental input, just like the whopping cc bill.

[daytoday]

you can set up an apple account with a gift card/voucher and not link it to an account. I googled how to do it and followed instructions.

[GwendolineMaryLacey]

I would imagine that the reason it didn't trigger any alerts is that your 11yo has his own Apple ID and therefore the pattern of spending wasn't abnormal on that account. But who the hell lets an 11yo have their own ID?? Just when I think it can't get any sillier...

[NewBlueCoat]

oh please, tone the drama down.

iPads aren't dangerous. handing one over to a child with inadequate protection or restrictions set up is dangerous.

mind you, I'm just as staggered that an 11 year old is allowed totally unrestricted internet access, for prolonged periods of time.

[IAlwaysThought]

I am glad to hear you will get back at least some of the money. It may be worth pursuing it further and seeing if you can get them to increase the level of refund.

OP. I agree that there is a lot of confusion on this thread but some of it was because we didn't know the facts until very late in the thread, for example it still isn't clear what iOS version or even which device was involved

Ipads and iPods are not in the least bit dangerous. There is lots of readily available information on the Internet detailing how to make them kid safe. You do not have to be tech savvy, you just have to recognise the potential problems and be prepared to take the time to do a bit of research.

There are idiots guides (with pictures!) to everything that has been discussed on this thread. I am not saying its impossible to get caught out though and I would never be foolish enough to say it couldn't happen to me. I work on the basis that everyone is out to get me