8 week old dropping centiles - failed at the only thing I thought I was doing right.

[SheldorAFK]

Ds was 91st centile at birth and at 4 weeks. At 8 weeks he's been weighed and has dropped to 75th centile.

I feel like a failure. Ending my children was the only thing I could do right and I've failed at that too.

He screams all day and I always put him to the breast and feeds and then claws at them. He never naps in the day either. Nighttime he sleeps 8pm-7pm and as he was gaining weight well I didn't wake him.

Obviously this has messed my supply up. What should I do? Switch to formula?

I feel like an utter failure. Trying to make a go appointment as I feel I need antidepressants as I am crying everyday and it's not getting better. I am also having panic attacks at least twice a week and they're so bad I feel like I'm dying. I've passed out from them twice as well.

[StickChildrenTwo]

OP I know how you feel. Please do go to the GP and at least discuss how you are feeling. Even a referral to counselling may be helpful even if you choose not to go on antidepressants. It's not really a case of you failing him or not coping. The first few months are incredibly hard with any baby but with another child to think of as well as the baby being unsettled it's torture.

Don't worry about his weight. My DS1 was born on the 75th centile, went straight up to 91st and is still on 91st now. DS2 was born on 98th centile and went down to 75th. They do tend to change but settle on one which is right for them. There are no rules that say they stick to the one they are born on.

As for the crying, both ours have been terrible criers and really difficult babies. I know it doesn't help you now (I remember exactly how you're feeling) but it really will pass. He won't be a screaming baby forever.

Have you been to the GP with the baby just to check there are no reasons for the crying? Reflux? Milk intolerance? We tried everything with DS1 but nothing worked. We just had to wait for him to out grow it.

I really relate to you crying and wishing you hadn't had another baby. I felt exactly the same when we had DS2. I used to break down all the time and wish that I could go back in time and just not have DS2 . I resented him for taking all my time from DS1. I hated that I was going through it all again. Everyone promised me I'd get an easy baby this time round!! haha. Didn't happen. I'd wake up sweating and my stomach would be in knots at the thought of DH leaving to go to work. I hated every minute of it. DS2 just cried and cried and cried no matter what I did.

I ended up going to counselling which I'm not sure it actually helped but it did give me someone to be honest with and explain how hard I found it. It was nice to have someone nod and not judge me when I told her how I felt. I am prepared to be flamed for admitting this now but I remember telling my counsellor that I wished DS2 would die of cot death so I didn't have to live this nightmare anymore . I am not trivialising how terrible it would have been if it had actually happened and I am not proud of what I said but that is how low I had got. How desperate I was. I knew I'd never hurt him but I believed that he had 'ruined' our family. My counsellor was extremely understanding and helped me work out strategies to make me feel like our family wasn't ruined, it was just different to how it was.

I feel so guilty for the times I'd shout at DS1 as a baby and cry and wish I'd never had DS2 but I know it was just an horrible situation. It wasn't that I failed them as such. I was doing my best but I was depressed and they were extremely difficult. Like I say, I never wanted to hurt them, I just didn't want to deal with them and the incessant crying and particularly with DS2 I felt so much guilt for DS1 and everything he was missing out on because of the crying baby.

It really does get better and you will be OK.

One day you will look at both of your children and you will be so glad you had both of them. You just have to survive this part. Sorry this is so long, just wanted to let you know you aren't the only person to feel like this.

[ExBrightonBell]

One of my HV said that how they grow in the womb is down to the mother, and how they grow outside the womb is them settling into their own natural pattern. My ds was very long and large when he was born (95th centile and higher). He is now about 75th for height and 50ish for weight - when weighed/measured 3 months ago.

He is absolutely the picture of health - he doesn't look fat or thin, has plenty of energy and is strong. It is completely incorrect to think that moving around the centile lines, as my ds has done, is a problem.

Also, babies don't grow in a predictable smooth way. They can grow in fits and starts. I can see this happening with my ds - he starts getting a bit chubbier, and then in a couple of weeks he's shot up and I usually have to buy the next size up clothes. He doesn't grow by the same amount each week, and therefore would wander around centiles depending on where he is in his natural growth pattern.

I hope you can see from everyone that has posted here, that you have not done anything wrong. I also hope that you are able to access some really good help to look at reducing your anxiety.

[AGnu]

Has he been checked for tongue tie? Both my DSs followed their centiles from week 1 until 8 weeks when they both started to tail off. DS1's tie was never identified & he continued to not gain weight until he was weaned. DS2 had his tie cut at 10 weeks & is now nearly 5 months & is gaining normally. It might be worth investigating, just to rule it out. Apparently it's possible for a baby to have a tongue tie which doesn't cause the mother any pain & is only picked up due to a lack of weight gain.

Having said that, both my boys were born on about the 25th centile so DS1s lack of weight gain sent him off the bottom of the chart quite quickly. We weren't referred to the paediatrician until his weight was considerably below the bottom line & had been for over a month. Even then it was only because I happened to see a more 'old school' health visitor. The other 3 I'd been seeing weren't in the least concerned about it!

I do understand the effect a lack of weight gain can have on your relationship with your baby, & yourself. Hearing them cry for any reason is horrible. Please try to remember that their centile charts are just based on what the 'average' baby does. My DNiece put on over a pound a week for the first couple of months. For every child like her there must be babies who don't gain as much as the charts say they should. That doesn't mean there's necessarily something wrong, just that they're balancing out another baby's gain!

For now just try to trust your HVs to monitor it & trust yourself to respond to his needs. FWIW, both my DSs slept through regularly from about 5 weeks. DS2 hasn't changed that but is now gaining weight according to 'the curve'! DS1 is a perfectly well developed 2yo. His initial scrawny-ness doesn't seem to have affected his development at all. He's on the smaller side but then so are DH & I!

Look after yourself. Grab any support you can - GP, HV baby groups, breastfeeding support, MN...! Getting used to caring for 2 DC can take a while I think I'm just about adjusted now having done it for 5 months! You'll get there. Your DS will be fine.

[breatheslowly]

Length measurement is really inaccurate as babies won't stretch their legs out. I know of a baby who "shrank" 4 cm from one week to the next. Lots of HV refuse to do length measurements because they are crap.

[NoComet]

Please get your DH to put your red book somewhere you can't find it.

I have no idea who tall DD2 was at birth, she wasn't measured and it's not easy measuring a squirming curled up baby anyway.

Babies, children and even teens grow in fits and starts. If they are alert and healthy and not obviously obese or stick thin don't worry.

I know big babies who are the most elegant slender teens you can imagine and tiny scraps who are now curvy size 12s. Some of these children were chubby toddlers or plump 9 year olds. Non of these girls is especially fashion or diet conscious, although some are sportier than others. Each has become what their genetics meant them to be.

[notwoo]

Mate - he's absolutely fine. He's thriving on your milk. A drop of one centile is absolutely fine.
If he looks ok and is weeing and pooing well he's grand.
The length thing - newborns are tricky to measure - especially when different people are doing it.

But the crying in the day - that's not good - especially not for you. If you're feeding on demand, and he is gaining weight (which he is) then he's not hungry so must be something else - reflux, overtiredness etc.

Are you using a sling? Or a rocking chair thing? Both lifesavers for me.
I'd also hesitantly recommend a dummy for v short periods as they are v calming for babies with reflux.

[SheldorAFK]

Just checked red book and he has gone from 99th centile to 50th in length. What the hell is going on?? Have I underfed him to the point of not growing now?? How accurate is lengthy measurement?

[ZebraZeebra]

Oh OP don't apologise. Anxiety is awful, babies are stressful...it's not surprising yoy feel the way you do.

My son is nearly one and I can still feel the anxiety about his feeding. He was born very big, lost six percent of his birthweight, and bounced all over the charts. Two things helped me - putting baby biotics in some expressed milk every day and his poos went from watery mustard to sludgy mustard and he started gaining weight. We also found out he had severe allergies to things I was eating but I'm not sure that affected his weight gain. The other thing was stop letting the HV affect me so much. He was obviously ok - he was growing out of clothes, alert, producing lots of wees and poos and crying very very real tears - meaning he wasn't dehydrated.

I urge you to trust yourself. You know your baby best. It would become obvious if he was losing weight very quickly. The guidelines are just that - guidelines. Bit I think some people become very militant about them. I remember the disappointment and fear every time my son dropped down a line. I also remember the HVs cats bum mouth. Now I think - fuck them, there was no reassurance, no advice, just a quick jump to suggesting formula.

As for the crying in the day - could you try just wrapping him up in a sling on you all day? As others have suggested he might have reflux and being upright will help him, as will the closeness to you. It also might encourage day time sleeping.

Dont despair OP. This will pass. It really, really will.

[galwaygirl]

OP, I think you took bears up completely wrong. She wasn't having a go.

My DC were also up in the 90s for length and as I said dropped down in the weight. My DH was a shortass as a kid but I was very tall and a stick insect so I'm remembering that to remind myself that the length/weight imbalance is most likely genetic.

I can totally empathise with the anxiety - I am under the care of a psychiatrist and psychologist myself for extreme anxiety relating to my DC and particularly my DD.
I think you should go and ask your GP for help ASAP with your own mental state. Read up in mindfulness, try to take in what people are saying here - when you feel panicked reread what people have said above.
I'm saying this as someone who recognises your panic and inability to be comforted by all the advice above having been there myself.

[SheldorAFK]

I'm sorry everyone, I suffer from panic attacks and high anxiety and the feeding thing just tipped me over the edge. I dreamfed ds about 10mins ago and I'm planning on doing that every night for a week until he's weighed again and see if that makes any difference.

I appreciate everyone s advice and support I really do. I just feel like I've failed and it's a shock to me that he's dropped centiles considering how big he was at birth.

I feel awful because he cries so much in the day and the only way I've dealt with it before is by reassuring myself that at least he's fed and it's not hunger cries. So to hear he's not gaining weight very well made me feel so guilty and like all those hours and hours of cries were out of hunger.

Tonight hasn't helped by "d"h saying he was on his way home at 5.30pm then only coming home now. I've been alone crying most of the night with only MN to talk to.

I'm going to make a GP appointment tomorrow and discuss antidepressants. I obviously need them and am coping very very badly on my own.

[ZebraZeebra]

OP I ask this kindly...are you able to let any of what we're saying sink in? There is a multitude of experience here, all saying the same thing, hoping to reassure you.

You are not failing him, you have no need to feel guilty, he's not chewing his hands out of hunger, you're doing such a great job. Read through the Feeding section, check out the Wonder Weeks site - they also have a great app - and know that your DS is doing what a billion other babies do. Your stress is only going to hurt you. It's ok. You're ok. You're doing a great, great job. His weight will even out. I don't even believe in the bastard centiles! Look at your baby - you know him. Does he cry actual tears? Does he wet nappies? Does he poo? If so, those are all indications of a well fed baby. Look at the baby, not the scales. Sometimes these bloody guidelines and charts and percentages mess up a perfectly normal, healthy feeding relationship.

[SheldorAFK]

Yes we're both tall btw - dh over 6ft 5 and me over 5ft 10.

[SheldorAFK]

breathe 99th centile for length.

[breatheslowly]

Do you know what length centile your DS is on? Length is hard to measure accurately, so isn't generally done, but unless your DS is a long baby, you wouldn't particularly expect him to be on 91st centile for weight.

Here is some good information about babies moving through the centiles in the first few weeks.

My DD was born about the 50%, but is now between 75% and 91% for both weight and height. We are confident that she should be there as DH is tall as is DD now. I think my DD was a little undernourished before she was born as she was so late, which explains why she wasn't born on the centile she belonged to.

Are you/your DH particularly tall? As your DD is a 75%er, it would be reasonable to expect your DS to be about the same. He probably just has to find his centile and will then stay on it.

One of my friend's DD was over 10lb. My friend is 5'2" and her DH is probably no more than 5'6". Her DD must have fallen through the centiles as she is now a good few inches shorter than my DD but perfectly in proportion.

[SheldorAFK]

bears my dd would wake every 45 mins until 6 months old. I am not smug. I am fully aware of what sleep deprivation is. Even now while ds is sleeping she will wake once at 2am and the nd or the day at 5am. So it's hardly me having a wonderful full nights kip. Especially now as I feel him sleeping through the night has caused him to go hungry. Please do not add to my guilt.

[NoComet]

Sorry should have proofed, a bit of dyslexic word losing, but you get the idea.

Stop worrying and yes it is parents job to worry, but sometimes it doesn't help

[NoComet]

As others have said if he was still on the 91st line at 18 months two years you would get scowled at.

Relax your doing fine and don't get him weighed for at least two preferably three weeks. You know he's healthy.

And RELAX I mean it, stress buggers up your milk supply. I can't be bothered to DD2s adventures with the sodding graph, but believe me, stress and BF don't go together.

Lister to the wise MNers, babies aren't necessarily born on the line they belong on.

Both mine were born on the 9th DD1(15) is on the 75 (no way am I weighing her)

DD2 after many adventures falling off the graph completely, was on 50% by one and has never deviated, at 12 she is exactly 12y size.

[BotBotticelli]

Pps I formula fed from 12 days old and DS dropped from the 91st centile at birth to the 75th centile where he has been ever since (now 10mo). No one has ever raised any concerns about his weight.

[BotBotticelli]

Ps weeks 8-10 are prime 'purple crying' peak time. Also there is apparently a developmental leap at around 8 weeks old which can make babies very cry-y and clingy. I remember week 8 being a real horror show with DS. Have you read the Wonder Weeks website?? Again, google it: it suggests that babies go through a number of development leaps in the first couple of year of their lives where they get very needy, teary, demanding etc etc. usually if I am feeling like "oh god I can't do this any more" and DS is being a screechy nightmare, I check the website and he is usually slap bang in the middle of one of these developmental leaps xx

[BotBotticelli]

Also op have you googled 'purple crying' - there is a theory which says lots of babies just cry lots for no real reason at all in the first few months of their life. Apparently it's a developmental thing. My DS did it and it (literally) drove me mad (PND here). Ultimately if you have tried feedin him, winding him, changing his nappy and getting him to sleep (rock, sling, dummy, swaddle, buggy, car - whatever works). I you have tried all of these things and he is STILL crying, maybe he is just having a cry an you can't do anything about it?? Hold him, comfort him and wait for it to pass. If he is still gaining weight (no matter how slowly and ignore the centile lines) has wet and pooey nappies it's unlikely you are getting the feeding wrong.

The good news is 'purple crying' usually ends by around 3 - 4 months. This will pass.

[nancerama]

Think back to your first memory. Chances are, you were at least 3. Most of us worry, fret and muddle our way through the early years. The good news is that your kids won't remember or hold a grudge.

[bearsmum123]

OP your 8 wk baby sleeps 11 hours at night?
I think you should read the sleep deprivation thread and feel very very smug.
Congratulations

[milktraylady]

Yup hand chewing is a developmental thing.

Phone the NHS or la Leche league Breastfeeding helpline.

Make an appointment with your GP in the morning.

Hugs

[Maiyakat]

As well as seeing the GP for you, it might be worth getting DS checked for silent reflux, which could be the cause of all the screaming. I second the sling suggestion, hopefully keep DS calmer so you can potter around doing other things with him still next to you.

If you're concerned that DS not feeding at night is affecting your milk supply you could express once in the night, then someone else could use that to do one of the day feeds for you to give you a break.

You are most definitely not a failure! Look after yourself, get rest when you can, accept all offers of help and get to the GP (when the receptionist asks you qualify for an emergency appointment - this can't wait til next week) x

[noblegiraffe]

My Dd also chewed her fists constantly. People used to comment that she must be teething but she didn't get her first teeth till 8 months. She wasn't hungry, just a fist chewer instead of thumb sucker.