Should prisoners be allowed to vote?

[Tinker]

Just heard a bloke on the radio saying that prisoners lose their right to libery not citizenship.

Had never thought about the issue before.

Any views?

[wobblyknicks]

Some people don't pay council tax, but they are still subject to it, just don't pay for different reasons. Whereas prisoners are totally removed from being subject to those things.

The bottom line is governments, among other things, decide issues of law and why should people who've broken that law help to influence it? No-one makes criminals committ a crime, its their choice, knowing beforehand what they stand to lose. they've made that choice so its fair that they abide by the consequences.

[happymerryberries]

I do think that the right to vote is just that, a right. However with rights come responsibilities. If you forget the latter you should lose the former. If people cannot conform to the basic rules of society, should society grant them equal rights?

Agree fully that prison should be more about rehabilitation and less about punishment. But I have no issue with them losing teir right to vote for the period of their imprisonment.

[Hulababy]

{risoners only recieve income or wages if they are employed (work, training, education) in prison and it is very nominal at present. For example, one of my peer partners (an inmate who was in the classroom with me to help other inmates taking the course) was paid £7.75 for attending FT (5 days a week, am and pm classes).

There are thoughts of changing this. Giving inmates more wages but then they will have to contribute towards living expenses (cleaning, food, accommodation) and also to contrbute towards their families (children, partners) living expenses also. I am not sure what stage this is at though.

[Caligula]

Hmm. Lots of people don't pay council tax but still vote. And prisoners are counted as "citizens" in other ways, for example they do get wages (nominal wages only, nothing you could pay a mortgage on, but wages nonetheless).

I just think every adult of sound mind in a democracy should be able to vote, irrespective of their tax status or their civil status. Otherwise, why shouldn't you stop people on probation from voting? Or those who have been let out early from serving their sentences? Or those who have received fines which they can afford to pay or community service sentences? Why should the prison sentence itself be the determining factor in whether you lose your vote?

[wobblyknicks]

But if you've permanently moved from the country, ie are not a citizen for the time you're away then you don't get to vote, even though you may very well be coming back a few years later.

In the same way prisoners are not citizens for the intents and purposes of things like council tax etc, they should not be counted for voting either.

[Caligula]

If you live abroad, you still have the right to vote. You can get a postal vote (I did this nearly twenty years ago). But I'm not sure how long you are allowed to be absent from the country without losing your right to vote.

[wobblyknicks]

Forgot to say though, I completely agree that many people shouldn't be in prison anyway (like the non payment of fines) so in an ideal world they would have the right to vote, as they wouldn't be in there!

[Twiglett]

NO

[wobblyknicks]

But isn't the right to vote one of our liberties? And for while they're in prison I don't think politics do concern prisoners as much as the rest of us, as they don't have to live in society. Its the same as people who move out of the country for a set time - like 10 years, intending to come back at the end. They don't get to vote while they're away, even though they'll have to live in that society later (so therefore the result of the votes will affect them) - because they are not actually in that society at the time of voting so don't have the right to have a say about it.

[Caligula]

Of course they should. The deprivation of liberty is supposed to be the punishment for committing crime, not anything else.

And anyway, don't prisoners contribute to society? Where would we get our wicker baskets from, if it weren't for them?

I've got a particularly nice oil painting in my sitting room done by a prison artist. Why shouldn't he be able to vote? Political parties' views on crime affect criminals as much as anyone else. And as far as I'm concerned, particularly when it comes to women, there's an awful lot of them there who shouldn't be there. The biggest group of women prisoners are there for non-payment of fines. Some people get sent to prison for the same crime that other people get community service for. Why should one person lose their vote and the other not, when they've done the same crime?

[bubbly1973]

i dont think they should have the right to vote, most definitly not...!

[JoolsToo]

sophable - not straw! (although you have a point!)

[JoolsToo]

[BubblesDeVere]

Once they can contribute something useful to society they then should be able to vote.

but, whilst they are in prison, definately no. WHy should they be able to have a say on something that doesn't really concern them whilst they are behind bars.

I say bring back the sleeping on straw, and living off bread and water.

[BubblesDeVere]

Once they can contribute something useful to society they then should be able to vote.

but, whilst they are in prison, definately no. WHy should they be able to have a say on something that doesn't really concern them whilst they are behind bars.

I say bring back the sleeping on straw, and living off bread and water.

[lavenderrr]

simple answer no, until they can obey simple rules like everyone else(regardless of whether they have been taught right from wrong)...they should pay the price...otherwise we would live in a lawless society.

[wobblyknicks]

I certainly wouldn't say it in many African countries at the moment, would be extremely insensitive. But they, and people who've fought for the vote in the past, are going through what they are because they are under oppression and a basic human right SHOULD be to be free of oppression. But I think the right to vote is a 'social' right that can and should be taken away for 'bad behaviour' whereas basic human rights, like not to be tortured should never be taken away, regardless of circumstance.

The only obvious exception to that could be the right to freedom but prisoners even keep that really, they've chosen an action which results in the loss of their physical freedom but it was still their choice. Like I could lock myself in a box (ala David Blaine) and lose my freedom but it would still be my choice as is my right.

[Heathcliffscathy]

crossed posts jools...[sheepish smile emoticon]

[JoolsToo]

if you're referring to me - I can take it!

[JoolsToo]

I always had dodgy knees - left and right!

sophable - me and you will never agree on issues such as this - so lets just leave it.

[Heathcliffscathy]

sorry. getting personal. shouldn't. am having awful evening, shouldn't vent my frustration here.

[Hulababy]

The more I think about this the more I feel that maybe prisoners should not be allowed to vote until they are once more contributing members of society. In others words once they are released or in an open prison (where they work in the society and earn money, contribute to living, etc. ).

[Heathcliffscathy]

and how does allowing prisoners to vote change that? seriously, this is just knee jerk right wing nonsense jools, you're brighter than that no?

[OldieMum]

Wow, wobblyknicks. Think of all the people who have died in order to get the right to vote. I'm amazed. And seriously, don't say that in Jo'burg, or you'll get people very upset.

[JoolsToo]

what I'm on about sophable is that some victims can now not only not vote but breath either!