What is going on at the moment?

[rickman]

Message withdrawn

[MamaMaiasaura]

Sorry i didnt respond sooner - been really busy

Firstly i apologise if i have offended any of you mners because when i post it isnt my intention. I post my views which cannot possibley be the same as everyone elses iyswim.


I didnt mean to suggest that those who do not take advice offered are all delibitary failing to take that advice or indeed should have taken that advice offered as it may not be right for them. I feel that there are times when some people and not necessarily just on here but generally that one may meet professionally that, despite the huge amount of resources offered cannot, for whatever reason, use those resources at that time, and as a professional and also personally (although you do try not to take it to heart) it can be extremely frustrating.

The comments regarding when someone is making what appear to be serious threats of harm i stand by for me personally and professionally. My comments were:

"The huge ethical issue for me is when someone is threatening to harm themselves as i have a duty as a professional to obtain help for them and as an individual i also feel obliged." and "when there are serious threats of harm their needs to be a way of alerting gp/emergency services to that person. iykwim."

I am talking about very real threats of harm to themselves or others. This is part of my professional code of conduct and for anyone who is a counsellor (for example) or been in couunselling this is something that should be made clear from the outset. I dont know the answers for mn regarding this and it isnt my place to state what their views are either.

For example if the scenario arose where a person threatened to harm themselves and/or their child/partner and they chose to say this to a chat room and then they went ahead and did it but said that they had tried to warn people in the only way they could.. what happens? I dont know the answers and perhaps broaching this really difficult area wasnt the best thing to do, but i did so i have tried to explain where i was coming from.

Please please do not take this personally or to be directed at any indiviual because it is not.

I guess i am going to get lots of negative comments about my posting but it isnt meant in a nasty way at all.

I am off for a week tomorrow so if i dont reply it isnt cos i am ignoring but because i am stuck in a caravan.

Take care and happy easter all. xx

[coppertop]

I strongly disagree with the idea of overriding a poster's anonymity in that way. Not only would it put people off posting but it would also be a violation of the poster's privacy. That kind of information should only be used for the purpose for which it was given IMHO, eg Whatsername sent me her name and address so that I could post some sponsor money. The money has been posted and so I no longer have those details. I certainly couldn't/wouldn't have passed them on to a 3rd party. I suspect that MN HQ would have similar thoughts on this.

[whatsername]

Awen, are you suggesting that there should be a way of overriding the confidentiality and anonymity on here bin order to involve professionals, if you think it's appropriate? Because for me that would have stopped me posting. I came here because it is one place where I am truly anonymous - a couple of people know my name and address, but that's all. I have never attended meet ups etc because that would compromise my anonymity and therefore I would be more cautious about posting, particularly the more personal things. I understand the point you're making but I think it is a very dangerous route to take.

I am one of those who has apparently ignored the advice given to me to go to my GP. And I can undertsand how frustrating that is, particularly to those who took the time out to try and help me. I'm not ignoring the advice. I have realised that I do need help. Getting to the point where I can actually bring myself to ask for that help is another thing, it is a whole seprate hurdle. One I am not ready to face yet.

[wobblyknicks]

And you can't expect people to do things in the time you would do them. You might think that someone should get help within the next day or two but it might take them months to take your advice but it still helps. I've had some great advice on here about some of the roughest times in my life but it took me months to actually let that advice sink in and act on it, but because of my state of mind at the time it felt like just a few minutes iyswim, because it took so long to get my head straight.

[jangly]

I don't think think people deliberately fail to take advice offered. I think its just part of the condition of being depressed that they can't take even baby steps forward, leave alone big ones. I think you must have endless patience.

[MamaMaiasaura]

mts - this sounds like a cop out, but it isnt. Bascially it depends on the individual and their circumstances, needs, and support they are being given. Clearly there is a lots of useful, supportive posts and in my personal exp it helps to know you are not alone and professionally, i think that it is like a virtual support group. All support groups need ground rules and to be facilitated to ensure confidentiality, safety etc (it think this is done by mn). The huge ethical issue for me is when someone is threatening to harm themselves as i have a duty as a professional to obtain help for them and as an individual i also feel obliged. This is not aimed at anyone person so please please if you are in this situation do not think this is a dig. As in any situation you need to assess and the fact that this is virtual it is almost impossible (most assessment is non verbal). So yes i think the threads can provide support although it needs ground rules which some appear to follow but when there are serious threats of harm their needs to be a way of alerting gp/emergency services to that person. iykwim.

[mummytosteven]

awen - that was a very interesting and thoughtful post.

[mummytosteven]

awen - i'ld be interested as you have professional and of course a degree of personal experience whether, in your opinion there is any way in which you feel that posters responding to these type of threads are making matters worse at all - I mean in the sense of whether support by Mnetters can be counter-productive and deter people from seeking RL help? I ask this as this has been suggested by posters on previous threads.

[nightowl]

join the club awen, i deleted the first post i wrote!

[MamaMaiasaura]

i can see that, nor was mine. Hope it wasnt offensive sometimes i dont word things in the best way

[nightowl]

my post directed at no-one in particular btw.

[MamaMaiasaura]

I think that is very well said nightowl. Interestingliy with depression it is usually when the person seems to be suddenly feeling better that is the danger time as it is considered that they have the motivation to act out any suicidal ideation they hold

[nightowl]

one thing ive noticed about people with depression is that they always seem to worry that they are burden to others. ive had friends who have comitted suicide and then ive heard everyone say "if only they had told one of us how they were feeling". some of the comments made on here sum it all up for me, thats precisely why people dont ask for help, they are scared of a negative response and "pull yourself together" type comments. if you think someone is attention seeking, then dont post. you have that choice. but dont make it hard for people to cry out for help when they genuinely need it.

[MamaMaiasaura]

I am sorry if i offend by adding by my views here.. sometimes get the impression that i do . I have suffered with severe pnd and req hospitilisation and actually lost my ds through it for some time. It was hell. Depression is and severe depression with psychosis is indescribable. Howver, throughout it there was still a piece of me left, tattered and small but still there. It was that part of me that made sure i took medication, followed the psychiatrists advice, went to counselling.. because they were my toiols to help me get stronger. Now i am nearly qualified as a mental health nurse helping those suffering from distress and it can be so frustrating wanting to help someone who is not yet ready to help themselves. You have to learn to step back and support. I have to say that on the whole i find it interesting reading the mental health threads and truely amazed (pleasantly) at the amount of support out there. What i find really frustrating though, as i do profesionally is when the support is apparantly asked for and then blatantly ignored. There are waiting lists in the NHS especially in mental health services and it is essential to get that help and when the help arrives grab it. Sorry if this offends anyone. It isnt meant to, i kinda need to vent sometimes.

[sansouci]

Yes, thoughtful is v. important. It's so easy to reply without thinking & inspire a swamp of nasty reactions. MN has helped me to consider where other people "might be coming from", if you'll excuse the expression!

[wobblyknicks]

Also MN is often like taking a magnifying glass to life - you personally may never have known someone before who wanted to kill themselves but it happens and if someone came to you saying they felt like that you'd have to deal with it or turn you back on it, which is the same as on MN. And just as you couldn't choose when someone would pop up with that problem in RL, you can't on MN. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't post, just as in RL people shouldn't shut themselves off from the rest of the world just to avoid worrying others. You just have to do the best you can and decide whether to help and deal with the fall out or just walk away.

Either of those choices is yours to make and no-one should criticize you for picking either one. The only thing that should be slated is daring to moan that depressed people show their faces in MN.

[jangly]

I suppose in the old days of Mumsnet there wasn't a "Feeling depressed" thread, so people didn't come on to talk about it. Now there is, people use it. The need was probably always there. It can only be a good thing, so long as advice is given thoughtfully. Mumsnetters recently have proved themselves to be fantastic.

[mummytosteven]

the difficulty is that if you are convinced you are worthless, (which is a common symptom of depression) then you will be attuned to the negative comments anyway - you would pick up on the 1 negative comment amongst 10 positive ones.

i just don't think it's appropriate to accuse people of lying on board as it is distressing to those falsely accused and creates an unpleasant atmosphere; if you have sincere concerns, contact a mod or mn, if you have idle concern, then just leave it at that.

[rickman]

Message withdrawn

[sansouci]

I agree with rickman that it is totally terrifying to watch a suicide thread unfold before your eyes. I was in tears & unable to sleep afterwards. Not that I felt sorry for myself, but it was a horrible combination of "how can this be happening" and "what can I do to prevent the worst"? Frustrating & horrific. Still, I'm glad if MN helped in any way, shape or form.

[whatsername]

Rickman, it wasn't your comments I was referring to. You were one of the ones whose support I really appreciated. It's just that some of the posts on this thread have been rather less sympathetic in tone. Maybe I'm being oversensitive, but it wasn't you I was talking offence at.

[MaidoftheRiver]

Toothache I completely agree with all you have said but there are some pretty unsympathetic comments, which may may be tongue in cheek but all the same do exist and i feel are unecessary, and can make potentially low feeling people feel even worse. Just don't see the point in it really

[rickman]

Message withdrawn

[Toothache]

MaidoftheRiver - I really don't think that was what was implied with this thread. Just that it's worrying that so many Mumsnetters feel so low that they are contemplating suidicide. I've been there, but I didn't have MN then. I haven't read the whole thread coz it's huge....so maybe I'm missing the posts you are referring to.

Personally I think that it's a positive sign that those who have felt suicidal thoughts have been able to post them here even if there is noone in RL to talk to. At least there is something and if that can stop people taking the step further than just talking about suicide then it's a fantastic step!