Does anyone have the surname PENNOCK? I have this book, you see ......

[Desiderata]

I bought it in an Oxfam shop in Coventry seven, maybe eight years ago.

I believe it's quite valuable, but I would like it to be returned to the family of the man who originally bought it.

His name was J H Pennock, with PIP in brackets. He was a soldier in the Great War. He was in Poperinghe (near Ypres) in October 1917.

He was in the late Signals H/79 Bde, RFA

He was entered as a clark to TocH (Talbot House) in December 1922.

The Book is Tales of Talbot House (1st Edition) by P B Clayton.

Sorry for the monotone delivery of this OP, but I wanted to get all the facts in from the off

So ... anyone have the surname Pennock?

[Desiderata]

Hi, everyone. Don't apologize for the hijack, TnOgu. This thread is becoming more thought-provoking by the minute.

SaintGeorge, thanks for your post. To the best of my knowledge, I have no family-lore about the Great War. I think many men just didn't speak of it when they came home.

But I'm glad you sent the diary to the War Museum. If I can't re-unite the book with the family, I'll donate it to the same.

[KTeePee]

I think it's lovely that so many people are still thinking about family members who were in WW1 - often people they have never actually met

[Desiderata]

So do I, KTee

[popsycal]

A fascinating thread. On the edge of my seat waiting for the family to get back to you!

My mum has spent the last 5 years piecing together her family history. Lots of skeletons in closets!

[Desiderata]

Trouvere's doing all the hard work, Popsy!

It must be a fascinating exercise, and something I ought to get round to one day.

[DontlookatmeIamborrrring]

This is a brilliant thread and it's lovely that you are trying to return the book Desi - I love family history it does send shivers down your spine when you think about what our ancesters lived through.
Can I ask, Trouvere, how did you get to the GG grandson - it might help others who are trying to do the same sort of research.

Can't wait to see the outcome of this

[Desiderata]

Thank you, dontlook.

I have no idea how trouvere found him so quickly, but I am full of admiration. I don't think she is active on the thread, so to speak. I believe that she is just waiting for Joseph Hardy Pennock's great-grandson to get in touch.

This could, I guess, take a while.

[Trouvere]

Really, it wasn't so difficult. I found all the likely J H Pennocks with a wildcard name search at www.freebmd.com. I have a subscription at www.genesreunited.com, so I searched for each of those names and sent a message to everyone who had them listed, asking if the biographical details that Desiderata provided sounded familiar (I have not mentioned that there's a valuable book at stake )
I think something like 4 of the 7 candidates were listed. The youngest, born in 1897 in Whitby, wasn't.
Joseph Hardy Pennock is listed by 5 different users. One of these replied to me and said she had passed the information on to his great grandson.
I've had replies from relatives of some of the other J H Pennocks which have eliminated them as possibilities (one was injured in a farm accident in 1912 and so wasn't involved in WW1; another had emigrated to Australia and never returned).
For Joseph Hardy Pennock's family information, I just looked him up in the 1901 census at www.ancestry.co.uk.

[Desiderata]

Apologies, Trouvere. I've been found out talking about you behind your back

So good of you not to mention the value of the book. I would find it hard to imagine that anyone would not want this to be returned to them for purely sentimental reasons, but it's wise to be cautious.

[TheDuchessOfNorks]

This is really interesting! Good luck with it Des.

My parents returned a painting to an Austrian family about 20 years ago - it was a minor painting but it was by a known 19thC artist. We were contacted by the auctioneers we'd bought it from, who had heard from the family's lawyers who wanted to negotiate the paintings return. The family had good evidence, an interesting and terribly sad story (as you'd expect) - so my parents just gave it back. I'm sure my father handed it over to the family in person .

This thread has reminded me to ask mum all the details.

[Desiderata]

I guess that had something to do with wartime acquisitions doing WWII, Norks?

[TheDuchessOfNorks]

Yes it was. It was a surviving daughter (and her children), from a Jewish family, who were slowly tracing her family's possessions. It would be really interesting to know how much she found.

[TheDuchessOfNorks]

After my first post, I wandered round the house looking at all the pre-1940s paintings for which I have no providence and thinking 'where did you come from?'. Actually it's quite eerie. I might see if there's a 'reclaim WW11 art' site.

[Desiderata]

Go do it, Norks.

A huge hurdle you may face is that most of the Jews who were alive and survived WWII will now be deceased or very elderly. These were the days before mass-documentation, photo's, etc. There can't be many people around today who would recognize a family heirloom, unless by word of mouth.

That said, if just one was re-united, it would be worth it, surely?

[Desiderata]

Bumping for the insomniacs.

It's a thoughtful read!

[TnOgu]

It is, Desi.

[Trouvere]

JHP's great grandson has contacted me. He says that JHP died in Middlesbrough in 1979. He served in both WW1 and WW2 and although he has his medal card, his service records apparently have not survived. He thinks he was a labourer and street sweeper in later life.
Does that seem unlikely for someone who "entered as a clerk to TocH"?
Unfortunately, the gt gs cannot confirm the details on the flyleaf.
I'm rather enjoying my role as mysterious go-between , but if you'd like me to put you in direct contact with him, Desiderata, I can do that.

[Desiderata]

Yes please, Trouvere.

TocH was an evangelical movement that was there to serve survivors of the Great War. The idea was to serve the younger population, by sharing their experience, without revealing what they had personally gone through.

I believe that the person you have found is genuine, and I would like to return the book to him.

Please contact me. I think you can do that through MN, but if not, here goes:

[email protected]

[Desiderata]

I'm crying.

[Desiderata]

It's not unlikely that he ended up a street sweeper. Most artillery men ended up doing menial jobs when they left the army.

It was a source of national shame.

[Desiderata]

My email address is on public record.

Trouvere, I cannot thank you enough.

To everyone else, I will keep you posted.

[Desiderata]

His service records would not have survived. 80% of them were destroyed in WW2.

[Mercy]

This is just great!

Des, could you keep us posted with any developments?

[DontlookatmeIamborrrring]

Trouvere - can I ask, what date of birth do you have for him?

It does seem to be genuine doesn't it? It's not a common name at all.

[Trouvere]

Update:
The great grandson spoke with his grandmother, JHP's daughter, who was born when he was 46. She does not know anything about his WW1 service. He married in June 1923 in Middlesbrough (confirmed - to a woman surnamed Williams), so if he was in Belgium in 1922, he didn't stay there long.
I know it would be great if the book-owner were Joseph Hardy Pennock, but realistically, there are 4 other possible candidates.