Disgusting behaviour by Natwest

[EmB1988]

Hi to all, I have often found myself on this site after googling a million and one parenting questions.
I hope i am not alone with how appalled i am with what Natwest bank have sent my 5 Month old baby after starting her a Bank account for all her money gifts etc. I assume they have sent this out to countless other children as well. A teach kids how to borrow and lend money activity. As part of their learn how to save pamphlet.
I have already been on to them today explaining my disgust at their clear conditioning of children to accept debt as part of every day life.

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

What a huge fuss about very little! Op don't you have a recycling bin you could put the leaflet in?

Although I do agree it's a shit marketing campaign. It's not exactly a fun game or teaching the children much because there's nothing tangible to help understanding and no learning objective.

I also wouldn't trust the banks to do a good job on the money management education piece but that is because the motivation and standard of financial education of many of the people delivering that service tends to be poor.

[caroldecker]

You have not responded to my comment that you have put Natwest in debt to you - you are forcing them to be the people you so abhor.

[lamiashiro]

Only the privileged have the luxuary of avoiding debt.

Oh, do me a favour.

Most people have debt in one way or another. Debt is not inherently bad, it's how you use it and service it that defines whether or not it's damaging to you and your family.

You're clearly the one feeling morally superior here rather than us.

[EmB1988]

Only the privileged have the luxuary of avoiding debt.

It's not something to feel morally superior over.

You appear to have a deep resentment for me. I am certainly not financially privileged, but i have avoided debt. I feel that you have made an image of me that somehow now offends you.

Anyway, as my involvement in this thread has overrun any contingent provenance i withdraw myself from any further proceedings.
Natwest have agreed with me on the age appropriation, i thought it would make for an interesting first thread on here....
If anyone has malleated my original post, or any subsequent responses into a personal indictment of their morals or financial stability i can but applaud your creativity.
A child receives a brochure from a company that they themselves agree is inappropriate.

[crazycatguy]

DP wishes he'd been taught about debt at school. By the age of 21, there was £10,000 on credit cards and five unpleasant and profligate years to follow.

For kids, debt still exists but it's not financial. If kid A borrows kid B's Lego, kid A has to return it. If kid A swallows some pieces or shoves a Lego man up their nose, they have to replace it in one form or another. Unless you are super rich, debt is an inevitable part of life. I'd love to have had 180k sloshing around when we bought the house but I know I'll pay it off just after I turn 50. Had I saved up, I'd miss out. I couldn't get a mortgage on this now as prices have gone crazy.

[Lightbulbon]

OP-my first job was 20 miles away, good luck walking that far to work every day.

And before you mention public transport there wasn't a bus that arrived before 9.

No loan= no car= no job.

Only the privileged have the luxuary of avoiding debt.

It's not something to feel morally superior over.

[Heatherbell1978]

Doubleuponcoffee you're spot on - the wrap ups you refer to are the work of the investment bankers. Mortgages themselves are secured loans. I recognise that a lot of the latter shouldn't have been written eg 100% LTV. OP you sent a link to unsecured lending. Yes it exists but that wasn't the cause of the financial crisis which is the point I was trying to make.

[caroldecker]

Of course borrowing and lending are part of saving money - Natwest has borrowed from you - they do not keep your money in a shoebox. Why do you think they pay interest?
The reason we have the deposit guarantee is to protect money we have lent to the bank (up to a certain level).

[SpotOn]

If you feel you have been personally attacked EmB1988 you should report those posts to MN.

The biggest problem I see about sending "inappropriate content" such as this to a child, is the waste of postage and paper. If I were the bank I would also stop wasting such resources and focus on teenagers.

[Doubleuponcoffee]

That's interesting Em, my old company did Islamic mortgages and they were just mortgages by another name that's allows you to get around the beliefs that Muslims shouldn't borrow money. I wonder if the Amish are the same?

[Owllady]

Geology is not a real science

[EmB1988]

Just to wrap up the countless tangents here.
Natwest sent age inappropriate content to a child which they have acknowledged and are now acting on.
In my opinion, i feel that it was wrong of the bank to suggest that borrowing and lending is part of saving money.
It was also my opinion that any company has a responsibility when communicating with children to ensure that they are doing so in an age appropriate fashion.
The debt being mandatory argument can go on for days, reading up on the practices of the Amish about such a subject is very interesting.
I would not condemn anyone for how they manage their finances, after all it is none of my business and i prefer it to stay that way. I was disappointed by a few on here who took my personal choice not to get a mortgage as some kind of elitism. I am also disappointing that any personal choice i make for myself and my family somehow reflects as a judgement on others. If anyone takes personal offence to my opinion of debt, Not the people who borrow, but debt as a concept itself then i cannot be held responsible for that.
Personal attacks are for bullies. I will not respond to them.

[RedToothBrush]

I am currently having numerous problems with Natwest and know of several others who are too. Customers who have been with them for 40 years without problems.

I don't know what is happening there or what they are doing to restructure but the end result is they give a shit about customers.

They have removed services from their branches and insist on it being via telephone only. At their convenience. When you complain, they then have someone phone you back to clarify the complaint and are rude when you repeatedly tell them its not a convenient time to do that and wtf did you spend 30 minutes going through it twice before anyway.

I've tried to get someone removed from an account three times and they are still sending things in their name (to the wrong address) requiring a signature from this person.

Its got to the point where security and the inability to actually use the account, the fact they make it impossible to complain (which I think actually puts them in breech of certain rules), that the account will be closed.

Just as soon as I have the authority to actually do this.

[Doubleuponcoffee]

those secured loans were wrapped up and borrowed against further by the banks though weren't they?
So say natwest lent me money on my house which is fine but natwest borrowed that money from someone else who borrowed it from someone else who had invested in a huge pot of "mortgages" which were basically no longer recognisable or reflected the property they were secured against?

[lamiashiro]

Hang on, so the OP is offended because she thinks investment banks are encouraging her 5mo to get into debt?

[EmB1988]

EmB1988 my source is me. I work in a bank. Banks have made huge errors but don't confuse investment banking with commercial and retail banking. The investment bankers created all your fancy Swap and CDOs and instruments no- one understood which saw the industry bring brought down but your high street banks tend to lend money secured on houses, land etc. Thats what Natwest does.

personal.natwest.com/personal/loans/debt-consolidation.html

[Heatherbell1978]

EmB1988 my source is me. I work in a bank. Banks have made huge errors but don't confuse investment banking with commercial and retail banking. The investment bankers created all your fancy Swap and CDOs and instruments no- one understood which saw the industry bring brought down but your high street banks tend to lend money secured on houses, land etc. Thats what Natwest does.

[SpotOn]

It has got the best interests of Banking practices over the best interests of the child.

Erm, yes. Like any big corporation making money from selling stuff. If you invested money with NatWest thinking they have the best interests if small children at heart you are very naive.

Getting into debt has meant my DC have been able to maintain a roof over their heads and have good on the table. Knowing how to pay it off is key.

And sometimes to get started in life you need a bit of a helping hand. I bet many of the worlds entrepreneurs took out a loan to get started.

[LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett]

I thought it was fairly well known that the root of the liquidity crisis was consolidated debt obligations, ie wrapping up mortgages and selling on the risk? Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac being one example?

[LazyDaysAndTuesdays]

I live by the principles that my mother taught me. I feel lucky to have learned the lessons i have and i am happy with what i have around me.

Good for you. However you are being quite judgemental about people that make other decisions than yours.

Others work hard too you aren't unique and pay mortgages etc. and live within their means.

You are continually implying that your way is the right way. It isn't. It's one way.

[TroubleinDaFamily]

PFB ??

[EmB1988]

"The banking crisis was also mainly about secured mortgage lending than unsecured lending"
Can you please provide your source for this statement?

[dementedpixie]

Debt is not evil though and if handled responsibly can be a handy thing to take advantage of

[caroldecker]

emb1988 You mentioned mortgages above I have never got into debt and i am not getting a mortgage. Why is it naive to think that my child should have to get in debt when i have never had to myself?
The banking crisis was also mainly about secured mortgage lending than unsecured lending

[dementedpixie]

There is a tiny bit of the leaflet that mentions lending money to someone and paying it back and the rest is about saving. You are well overthinking it