The reality of living in poverty in 2012 - heartbreaking (contains distressing information about the death of a child)

[Northernlurker]

This story is in my local paper today. You may find it distressing. I certainly did.

In brief it features a mum who was living with her young son and baby and partner in a one bed flat in York. The flat was damp. The council knew it was damp but as the one bedroom was very crowded condensation etc was seeminly inevitable. The family were filmed by the Guardian for their poverty series. 4 weeks after filming the baby died sudenly. No cause has yet been found for her death.

I live in York. I am bitterly ashamed to live in a city where such a thing could happen. The pictures in the film remind me of those from the late 19th/early 20th century when so much pioneering work was done combating poverty. The film is heartbreaking (i'm at work so i haven't yet heard it with the sound up). Baby Telan should be happy and healthy. If she was my child the statistics say that she would probably still be happy and healthy but her parents were poor and so she's dead. I can't believe that happens in 2012.

[Northernlurker]

As chance would have it I was doing the intercessory prayers at church this morning so I mention Telan's family then. Have also e-mailed our MP to ask him what he will do in response to this case.

[CreepyLittleBat]

Poor little baby - if you watch the film, they're just a family like anybody else, caught in the poverty trap because their previous landlord decided to sell up and the father is epileptic and can't get work. The fungus growing in their one, overcrowded bedroom is a disgrace, and there really is a limit to what you can do with mould. My baby ended up in hospital with breathing problems when we lived in a damp house, thankfully he was ok. This film made me cry. Anyone who judges them, just remember that any one of us is only a redundancy, a bereavement, an accident or an illness away from poverty. We have a duty to help people like this.

[gaelicsheep]

I haven't said this yet, but I'm desperately sorry for this poor family, such a terrible tragedy.

As for this damp/ condensation/ventilation issue, I don't get it. If a house/flat has an inherent damp issue then airing only goes so far. Looking at that picture it went way further than condensation. The place was riddled. Either previous tenants have let it build up to the point it is inherent, or poor maintenance is at fault.

I can't believe that tenants specifically do not air their houses enough. We didn't change the way we live when we moved from our own home to a rented place. That response to the problem is simplistic and frankly a total cop out. Inadequate maintenance and works done on the cheap, if at all - that is the real problem. It needs sorting out and soon.

[defuse]

Hi northernlurker . Sorry - i wasnt having a go at you. I am glad you mentioned this story. It is important that people know how some have to live.

I remember watching some documentary on tv a while back and they showed house after house with severe damp issues - all had little children residing. All had landlords who didnt care. Something does need to be done to address this issue. Health issues associated with damp are well documented. But landlords need to be held responsible for at least attempting to tackle this issue.

[BarbecuedBillygoats]

Switching of the heating won't have helped
A constant low ambient temperature would be better (but expensive)

And I only know this because we live in a house with damp and mould. Our income is slightly above national average and we pay nearly half in rent so its supposedly not some crummy house
My husband is pretty ill with it. He has asthma and they've had to up his meds, which makes him vomit so he's also on anti emetics.
We can't afford to move.
If we can't get out I can see how easy it is that they were stuck

[Northernlurker]

I think tenants should do what they can to air the home etc. Problem is for this family they were so over-crowded that wasn't possible. There is no dettox etc that will stop the condensation in a small room occupied every night by four people. If they had known the baby was going to die I'm sure they would have tried to get out - but tbh they were already trying that. They logged the mould, they switched off the heating, they were waiting for a bigger home.

Furthermore - I bought this story to mumsnet because I am dismayed and horrified by what has happened to a baby in my own city. I have no problem at all in saying that the housing conditions contributed to that child's sudden and tragic death. I didn't bring the story here for people to point and say 'shouldn't have kids'. If you watch that film, watch that father bathing his baby, watch that mother playing with her. Watch her rolling about on that bed because there's no where else for her to play. If you can watch all that and then all you can say is 'its' a tragedy but....' then truly I have no words for you.

[gaelicsheep]

But the problem is that making that the tenant's responsibility is carte blanche for landlords to deny theirs, such as they are.

[Sarahplane]

Such a sad story. Whether the damp and mould was to blame or not people should not be living like that in this day and age.

[HoleyGhost]

I know. I've lived in mouldy rented houses and hated having to deal with it.

I agree re extractor fans. Also repainting with mould resistant paint would have been sensible. Our landlords were useless.

But leaving mould unchecked was not an option. Dettox worked best.

[gaelicsheep]

Also, cleaning with bleach doesn't help with the spores surely. We've had mould grow on a piece of furniture nowherenear the wall, it's appeared in the space of one day on a new patch of penetrating damp. It's surely in the air in many cases.

[defuse]

I feel so annoyed at people who sit passing judgments on who should and who should not have kids! Or the whole 'they had kids so they could get somewhere bigger from the government' attitude.

For goodness sake! This is a tragedy and it is not an isolated case. So many families live in these conditions, but instead of having compassion, trying to solve this issue, some people decide that they will get sickeningly 'they should have done it differently' over it all!

Do you guys always need someone totally vulnerable to blame so that you can feel good about yourselves??!

Rant over!

[gaelicsheep]

HoleyGhost -who says she wasn't doing that? We do. Isn't it funny how condensation is only such a problem in rented houses, where landlords can't be bothered to install working extractor fans, etc.? How convenient that it's the tenant's fault for breathing!

[HoleyGhost]

It is an awful tragedy but we don't know that the mould caused the baby's death.

It is also not clear who is responsible for mould caused by condensation. I understood that opening windows every day and cleaning any mould with bleach was the tenant's responsibility.

Happy to be corrected.

[gaelicsheep]

Oh dear,sorry! Damned touchscreen keyboard!

[gaelicsheep]

We're currently renting. It's a nice cottage, nicely done up, as good as we can afford. We have mould everywhere and it isn't through lack of ventilation or any of the other crap they spout to blame tenants. The place is built with poor quality stone and has been inappropriately modernised. I worry about my children's health every day, but thank god their room is the only one without mould. We are doing the best we possibly can. But perhaps you should only be able to have children if you can livein a house you own? Maybe a pre-conception inspection would be in order?

[gaelicsheep]

We're currently renting. It's a nice cottage, nicely done up, as good as we can afford. We have mould everywhere and it isn't through lack of ventilation or any of the other crap they spout to blame tenants. The place is built with poor quality stone and has been inappropriately modernised. I worry about my children's health every day, but thank god their room is the only one without mould. We are doing the best we possibly can. But perhaps you should only be able to have children if you can livein a house you own? Maybe a pre-conception inspection would be n

[AThingInYourLife]

I'm really not looking for an argument.

I feel too nauseated by the kind of unspeakable arseholes I apparently share a country with to have the stomach for it.

Saying something is terrible while you justify it and blame the victims is not worth a lot really. Is it?

[gaelicsheep]

We're currently renting. It's a nice cottage, nicely dn

[axure]

Sorry but I agree with Korma, she got pregnant and had her 2nd child whilst already living in obviously inadequate accommodation. Why didn't they wait until they had been rehoused? Possibly because they thought a second child would increase their chances of a move. Also the report states they had a dog as well, no doubt compounding the problem.
I would never in a million years have planned to bring a baby into that environment. Having a baby is not a right, and you need to take some responsibility and ensure that you are able to support yourself and your family, not rely on benefits and expect free housing.

[gaelicsheep]

Korma -unless someone is wealthy enough to own their own home, and yes these days you need to be very wealthy to buy for the first time, then they are always at risk of poor living conditions. Rents are exhorbitant in many areas, landlords are so frequently total crooks and the law is seemingly non existent in practice. It is shameful, and to not understand/acknowledge this is pretty poor as well.

[AThingInYourLife]

"I just don't like the blame being placed in the government/ housing dept etc"

She was their tenant.

If she died because the housing they provided was damp, then it is their fault.

Your morality has to be seriously corroded to blame a tenant for their own poor housing because they should be able to afford better.

[Northernlurker]

The parents did the best they could to bear that responsibility. Family houses are expensive to rent in York. When we were looking 14 years ago dh was earning 13,000 and we couldn't afford to rent. What saved us was being able to buy but the same house now costs around 4 times as much.

[AThingInYourLife]

Or perhaps the argument is that this little girl is no loss to the world since she should never have been born to her feckless parents?