For those who can't afford to use central heating this year - How are you going to cope?

[mama2moo]

We have 2 dd's - 3yo and 20mo and already owe money to our suppliers. We are going to have to be careful with not using the heating too much but our house is feeling cold already!

We have bought thermal vests, fleece pjs, fleece tops and extra duvets.

What else can we do?

TBH Im dreading it. By the 3rd week of every month we are skint at the moment.

[gaelicsheep]

How do you mean? We're on economy 7 so daytime units are more expensive than a standard tariff. But our storage heaters are not set up to boost during the day. Never EVER boost a storage heater with daytime rate energy!

[gaelicsheep]

Sorry, that was a bit blunt!

[garlicBreathZombie]

It's all about building up heat layer on layer on layer so that eventually the house itself is warm, not just the air. - Couldn't agree more, and the same thinking lies behind my (HVAC-approved) advice to keep central heating ticking over 24hrs.

Wrt cost & storage heaters - obviously, if you have storage heaters you'll be on E7. My flat with storage heaters was about average, I suppose - the appliances looked like they were 1980s (so 30 years old) and were checked regularly, but didn't store enough heat to keep the place warm all day. I could either open the vents to let more heat out, in which case they ran out of heat before 5pm in winter, or put them on boost/heat, which was basically a convector heater and used a lot of electricity at very expensive daytime rates.

Storage heaters are good if you're out all day. They're a nightmare for those of us who aren't. Additionally, E7 means that ALL electricity used in the daytime - for showers, cooking and supplementary heating - is charged at penalty rates. My provider at the time charged 5 times the economy rate for daytime power. It was just over 3 times the ordinary rate.

[gaelicsheep]

We're in all day too (at least DH is with a young toddler). The difference in this house, since we made the changes, and the last house is nothing short of a revelation. The last house was the one I mentioned earlier on where DH had to take DS out in the daytime because the house was so cold it was uninhabitable (we're talking a Scottish Highland winter).

[gaelicsheep]

Do you mind me asking which provider? We're with Scottish Hydro who have their faults (ie not understanding how much power storage heaters use) but their E7 tarriff is pretty fair all things told. 5 times as much for daytime power is simply shocking. I think our daytime rate is about 1.5 times the standard daytime rate and about 2.5 times the nighttime rate. 19p ish daytime, 8p ish nighttime IIRC.

[Tianc]

OK, not helpful to keep warm, but you should all know about a major change coming up.

The power companies are intending to replace all electricity and gas meters with Smart Meters starting this year. Info here and here.

Smart Meters will be reprogrammable remotely, and the power company will be able to flick your meter over to a Prepayment meter and load it with whatever they think your debt is (see p16).

Because they will no longer need access to your premises, they will no longer need a court warrant. So they will no longer have to demonstrate to a neutral body like a court that they are not talking complete bollocks. As they so often are because power company records are notoriously shite (phantom meters, zillion pound bills, and a Mumsnet Classic).

Currently when you decline to pay obviously bonkers bills, their little minds are wonderfully focussed on sorting the problem out, because they won't get any dosh till they do, and court or meter-installers cost them money.

With Smart Meters, they can simply tick a box on your account and turn your meter into a prepayment one loaded with the debt of £944994594984 they've decided you owe.

Oh, and they're going to try to sell the whole Smart Meter concept as energy-saving because they have a screen showing consumption. Like the little clip on consumption displays you can buy for £25.

There are other v serious problems with reprogrammable Smart Meters, like they're potentially hackable and brickable, and the cybersecurity people like Prof Ross Anderson are doing their nuts about it. Meanwhile Ofgem, which is supposed to represent the consumers' interests, has in fact been tasked with pushing through the change.

Anyway, I thought the discussion of prepayment meters should mention this. And no I don't know what we can do about it ? but they'll need a fucking court order (literally) to get across my threshold with a Smart Meter.

[garlicBreathZombie]

I can't remember, sorry. It was 2005-2007 so will all have changed a lot anyhow. I'm quite willing to believe your lovely new heaters are that much better but it ain't easy to get a landlord to replace the old ones!

[garlicBreathZombie]

OMG, Tianc!

[gaelicsheep]

No I do understand that. I feel that landlords should be compelled to make their places energy efficient, not least for the benefit of their tenants who are often the very least able to pay exhorbitant charges. Legislation is absolutely woeful in this respect.

I suppose I'm just hoping that if anyone happens to have a good landlord ( a rarity I know ) then the information I've provided might be helpful. And obviously anyone who owns their house has another option to consider before deciding they'll need to shell out thousands for central heating.

[gaelicsheep]

Must go to bed, but also, if people have old heaters it is even more crucial that you use them properly. The benefit of automatic heaters is that they only take the charge they need. I didn't mention about these to gloat. The point is you can achieve almost the same with manual ones as long as you're vigilant and they're actually working properly.

I would strongly advise people to get one of those consumption meters - some companies were giving them away free at one point. Then monitor consumption overnight, using one storage heater only each night (assuming you can afford to use more than one!). We did this and discovered that one of ours had a dodgy element which meant it never ever shut off and it was costing us a fortune.

You can roughly work out how much a heater should be using by taking the maximum wattage (eg 3.4kW), and multiplying by 7 (or 8 in our case). That would be the absolute full charge the heater could take. You can then divide this figure according to the input setting, but maybe grit your teeth for a night and put it on full input to make the sums easier. If it is continually running at total maximum night on night despite the settings I'd be getting it checked over and oreferably demanding a replacement.

[gaelicsheep]

Sorry, third post in a row . You don't of course need a consumption device - just look at the meter before and after - duh! We only used it because it was free.

Sorry for hijack about storage heaters - hope some of it was useful.

[inmysparetime]

I got a smart meter voluntarily, but had to send it back, as we have solar PV panels, and while the meter could measure the amount of power going through the incoming supply, it had no way of knowing which direction the power was moving. Hence, when the sun came out, the smart meter lit up like I was boiling a kettle! I only twigged when I boiled a kettle and the "consumption" dropped dramatically!
Not boasting, just pointing out that smart meters have limitations and aren't suitable for everyone.

[TheHumancatapult]

ah inmysparetime that is interesting as My new house has solar panels on the roof

so they may need to resolve that issue first

[inmysparetime]

Apparently if I really wanted to know my generation/consumption I could but a ludicrously expensive meter from Sunny Boy, no thanks.
I read the generation meter every day and my gas and leccy meters the same day each month to get a picture of my consumption and generation. I have the opposite issue to the storage heater folk, electively during the day is far better value than night time electricity, so I need to run things in the day, especially on sunny days. This does not go well with heating, so I have an A rated boiler and new central heating to replace the clogged up radiators and H rated back boiler, hopefully the fuel bills will reflect this. I'm still getting to grips with the boiler controls though, I usually set it to "frost prevention" to stop it coming on during the day, then set it to 15 degrees in the evening and off again at night. That way the boiler only works a little. The old boiler mostly made chugging noises and made the top corners of the radiators a little above tepid, while guzzling gas.

[TheHumancatapult]

ty inmysparetime i have no clea rhow the solor panels will work

is new build so should have decent boiler etc

[inmysparetime]

Solar panels convert sunshine into electricity, but they only work when it's light (obviously). If it's sunny, it's more likely to be warm so solar energy is not much good for heating, though it is good for lots of other stuff.
There is also solar hot water, which is good for heating, as the sunlight heats water in pipes so you don't need to heat water for domestic use from cold, saving a lot of energy. I had to choose between solar hot water or PV, and on balance the PV worked out better over the next 25 years.

[fedupofnamechanging]

I own my house but it has storage heaters downstairs. I am still clueless as to what settings the input and output dials should be set to.

Just wanted to add that my dad got me an old, but decent storage heater off freecycle, so if you own your house but can't afford to get gas laid on and CH put in, then it's worth a look. all you would then need to pay for is someone to install it.

[oksonowwhat]

gaelic, thanks for all the info about storage heaters, really helpful.

[gingeroots]

aargh Tianc - terrifying re smart meters .
Absolutely terrifying .
And I have a meter change ( electricity ) booked for next week .

[gaelicsheep]

karmabeliever - the output should be set at zero as a default and increased as required to release more heat. The input controls the charge the heater takes and should be set according to the comfort level needed and how high you will have the output, which will vary according to outside temperature and your own house. It's trial and error. But never leave the output on at all overnight in case your heater doesn't shut it down when charging.

[Debs75]

Thehumancatapult re your lift. My friend had one and when it was in the up position it blocked up the hole in the roof almost perfectly so she kept it up in the bedroom most of the day and tried to limit her going upstairs. When she did use it though it did leak out the heat into the bedroom but then so will opening the door to get to the stairs.

[fedupofnamechanging]

Thank you gaelicsheep

[fedupofnamechanging]

I've just had a proper look at the one in the living room and it has an input dial and a dial with room temp boost written next to it. It says 'No Boost - 1, Late Boost - 2, Early Boost - 9'. Is this my output dial or does it mean that it will emit heat regardless of setting, and I can only control how much heat? There is no 0 on the dial.

I feel really stupid, having to ask this.

[Tianc]

gingeroots, did they tell you what sort of meter they are planning to install? Any chance you could find out?

Because it may be they're giving you a Smart Meter without informing you.

[gingeroots]

Tianc - they didn't say ,just something about my existing one reaching the end of it's life .
If I ring and ask them ,should I just ask if it's a smart meter ?
Do I need to be familiar with other descritions of a smart meter that they might use ,which I wouldn't necessarily recognise as a smart meter by another name ( IYSWIM )