The One and Only Tea Room - Now Hanging in Babylon

[ComeIntoTheGardenMaud]

Well folks, here we are, transported through time and space to the Hanging Gardens of Babylon.

Golden couches and the distressed chintz sofa are arranged on a terrace overlooking the Euphrates and, as we recline on the exquisitely-soft cushions eating peeled grapes, we can enjoy the warm fragrance of the gardens' many exotic blooms. The garden is tended by the indefatigable Mellors, with occasional help from the bishops, rabbis and any passing world leaders. Somewhere behind the terrace there is an aga and a priest's hole, with optional massage table.

Please come and join us for a celebratory drink and conversation ranging from the profound to the profoundly silly.

Here you go Scout

It's probably little consolation but when it comes to families I think it's almost impossible to please everyone. Are you ok?

Heck Scout - dare we ask any detail?

It's in regards to my SiL and BiL. It sounds like there is ishoos because I/we didn't text on Tuesday but, as I said to my MiL, I was waiting until after the baby was born to find out the details so I could write a more heartfelt/personal letter and card.

I realize grief is personal and it can do funny things to people. But... but.... I'm struggling here with this one. We so rarely get information about them/their family directly from them (usually comes from MiL) and suddenly I'm expected to jump? BiL text Tuesday afternoon (but I had already had messages/verbal conversation with MiL by then) and I didn't respond because I knew they were at the hospital and she ws probably in the middle of whatever they were going to do. Forgive me, but I thought his place was with his wife/my SiL, not playing with his mobile!

Sorry, honestly, my life isn't that bad -- I just find it easier to moan here. I don't want to constantly moan at MrScout about his family. And regarding some of things/people at home, he doesn't know them well/feel the impact the way I do.

Scout - feel free to moan as much as you need to. I would have been on the same wavelength as you, not wanting to send texts without knowing when is a good time. It seems like these days, with instant communication, if you don't respond to a situation immediately you somehow don't care - which is rubbish.

Thanks bean. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

There's a lot with this branch of the family. And I mean a lot. I've recently realized I can just never get it right with them, no matter what I do or don't do.

Scout - As you have seen for yourself, I am an Old Fogey and my attitudes probably reflect that. I am trying too to make allowances for the horrific experience which your BIL and SIL have just been through, but I find their attitude very strange. Texting has its place for passing on urgent messages, but as a means of expressing condolences it's wrong on every level. A text, that might have arrived while SIL was still in labour, would have been intrusive and crass. A carefully worded card or letter is, as you thought, much more fitting and appropriate. Perhaps BIL and SIL will appreciate that, once the initial shock has gone.

evening all.

Committee meetings -- arrgh.

cup of hot choc any body?

Maud, you are NOT an Old Fogey. I think you are lovely.

SiL and BiL are both older than me (BiL by over a decade), constantly change numbers/swap phones with each other so you don't actually know who you're getting if you call/text and share an email address (though he has a separate one but SiL doesn't/isn't allowed). And I would think, with their attitudes towards many things, they, too, would realize a text condolence is crass. I'm still a fan of old fashioned paper and pens and still often write real letters, not just emails.

Oh, Scout, that's very kind.

But I am old enough to think that this current obsession with texting everyone you know every 20 minutes to tell them nothing very much is actually destroying the art of communication because people are losing the skill of expressing themselves properly. Text-speak now crops up in exams, apparently. That said, I seldom write proper letters, but I do send proper emails written in complete sentences with punctuation!

?

I must be old, too, because I hate texting unless it's a quick "we're late" or "MrScout, can you stop for milk on your way home" sort of thing. MrScout, on the other hand, lives on his phone and gets frustrated with me because I often forget mine or it's run out of juice or I'm out of credit. I also don't do public grieving or gushing on places like FB unless it's genuine.

I'm a big fan of proper sentences with punctuation!

Cheers.

Here you go. Cheers for a fellow Fogey!

::contemplates starting new thread where fogeys can hide from modernity::

::considers the paradox of doing that on an internet forum::

Cheers!

I don't mind modernity. But the whole living on your mobile thing drives me a bit batty. And don't get me started on people who do FB from their phone and post every time they move from one place to another -- WHY do they do it?!

(And yes, I know I post a lot of pics on FB but that's so my family/friends at home can see how much TS is growing/changing. Mom and Dad love all the pictures.)

Cheers to the fogeys (I include myself in that category)!

I'm rubbish at texting, don't do FB and get annoyed going out with friends when their phone 'pings' all evening and they hide behind the serviettes trying to pretend they aren't checking emails.

I had a friend to visit that I hadn't seen for months - within 5 minutes she wanted our wireless password for Face Book. Grrrrrrrrrrr.....

Hhmmmmm....

Just been rereading the email I received earlier from my MiL and trying to figure out if we're being "summoned" to the funeral/burial or if she was just telling me to tell me. See, things like this my SiL/BiL probably wouldn't tell me about or ask us to attend -- we get it via MiL. I did say in my response "if we're wanted down we'll come early" (burial Thursday, were already due to go down on Friday) but I'd like to know sooner rather than later since I have appointments and plans....

Yes, Scout and Bean, that's the main focus of my fogeydom too. Being Extremely Old, I am of the generation that could arrange to meet a friend in a week's time and then turn up on the appointed day at the appointed place. Now, it seems, you can't rely on any social engagement if you haven't called or texted the other person at least three times a day on every intervening day.

Oh, and when did text become a verb instead of a noun?

::Shuffles off to old folks' home::

Scout - I think you need to say to your MIL in plain English that you don't want to bother SIL and BIL by asking them directly, but you imagine they want a very quiet occasion on Thursday although, naturally, you will come if they want you there. That puts the onus on her to be clear about whether you're being invited/called/summoned or not.

Why does MIL act as their social secretary all the time? Is she a bit of a matriarch? What's MrScout's take on all this?

I agree with Maud that you might need to be quite direct with MIL and find out what is 'expected'.

Do you want to be there? Does Mr Scout?

On the chance that SIL / BIL may not know what they want at the moment and may change their minds several times over the coming week could you change your plans and make arrangements to go down on Thursday even if, at the last minute, it's not needed.

Scout I agree with everyone else. 'Do BIL and SIL want us there?' is straight and to the point.

I am afraid this old lady is going to have to disagree with the rest of the old ladies. I would have responded to his text and written a letter. Why is both not possible? I think they probably needed some instant comfort and then would appreciate more comfort later.

And I think that's the bit that gets forgotten by people who are against or prefer to not use instant communication. It means instant help and instant connection. Which is just as important as long letters. I do both.

Sorry, hit enter too soon.

Meant to also point out that just because it is sent as a text does not mean it has to be in text speak. I always text in full English with proper grammar and punctuation.

While I understand your point, Tee, about instant comfort, I find it difficult that that was the intent with BiL. We are not close (he makes me quite nervous/uncomfortable) and he does not rate SiL's family (SiL is MrScout's sister, so BiL is by marriage). They much prefer to turn to BiL's family and their (church) friends then SiL's family, including her parents. The text was a mass text and actually didn't say anything. I know what I know through MiL.

I think I also take issue with he was messing about on his phone while his wife was in labor to give birth to their dead baby girl. I would have been quite ticked off at MrScout had that been him and I wouldn't be in any position to look at messages in the labor room.

MiL is a bit matriachal, but not in a negative/bad way. She is their social secretary to a degree because they don't share information with the family (see above statement about who they go to) so when SiL does tell MiL something big/important/exciting MiL shares it in an effort to keep all of her children (and, in this case, her DiL as well) together as a family unit. At least I'm assuming as such. SiL will also go to MiL to moan about all manor of things regarding her siblings and expects her to talk to said sibling rather than talk to the sibling direct. It happens all the time.

MrScout, who also doesn't have a close/brilliant relationship with his Sis (it's very much "civil" if you know what I mean -- there is no common interest and he doesn't like BiL) and doesn't understand babies/pregnancy keeps saying "but x didn't know it." I finally got through to him that women become mothers the minute they're pregnant and what hormones/pregnancy does to a woman's pysche. I think what finally got him to understand was "BabyM was the same gestation as ToddlerScout. Imagine if I had given birth to TS, whole and perfect and developed and he didn't breathe when he was taken out." He agrees that he probably wouldn't have text knowing when BiL text and what was going on. Then again, he doesn't fully understand why I'm sending a card to the family and writing a letter to his sister. I don't think he would go to any service (partially because he doesn't understand but mostly because I don't think he could get off of work short notice for it). I would go to represent my little branch of the family (not the most comfortable position/thing to attend but I would go as family and as one woman supporting another). I need to check my calendar again to make sure I don't have a doctor/hospital appointment but the social things I could cancel on (and friends would understand).

I did say to MiL that "xyz was my original plan for Friday but if we're wanted TS and I will be down early." I'm sure I'll get more information this weekend.

Blimey that was long -- sorry!

I didn't realize it was a mass text, Scout, if you said that and I missed it, I apologize for assuming. I do agree with your comment about him texting while his wife was labouring. I think doing so with a live birth is exciting, in this situation it's a bit callous. But it also sounds, by your comment about her not being allowed her own email address, that he is very controlling and not very supportive anyway. And perhaps cutting her off a bit from her family? Just speculation!

In any event, I think if you feel you should go, you should go, if they want you there. And if your husband thinks he doesn't need to go, he shouldn't go.

No, I didn't mention it was a mass text. There are a lot of ishoos with him way more than I could ever spell out here. I am glad, though, that MrScout agreed he wouldn't have responded given the timing. Heck, MrScout didn't text during my labor other than when things first kicked off to say "the drugs worked, Scout's in labor. We'll let you know when BabyScout makes it's appearance." Though we did take some pictures of a very active BabyScout soon after things started happening and emailed Mom, but that was more me saying "oh, MrScout, get a picture of this stomach we need to have this!"

I would go, but only if we're really wanted. To be honest I think having TS there would be difficult but I'd struggle with him if I thought it would be appreciated/of support.

I promise to be more positive this weekend.

anyone?