Bitten at nursery - and they won't say who by. Is that common?

[wheelsonthebus]

my child was bitten at nursery last week and naturally i was interested in knowing which child was responsible, but i was told i could not be informed because of a fear i would take retribution on the parents or dislike the child. Seems a bit extreme. Is this usual nursery policy?

[spudballoo]

I've found this thread really interesting and have learnt lots,so thanks to everyone who has posted and shared. Really helpful!

My nursery'spolicy is no names which I am happy with, although Ishould add that my son (14mths) hasn't been bitten, and nor has he bitten anyone as yet. But I have my eyes open, I know biting is a normal part of toddler experimentation and development and I'm sure it will happen sooner or later. I don't need to know which child bit him, but I think I would want to know if he was being bitten regularly and it was the same child. I guess I'd want to hear from the nursery that they were doing their best to separate them, but I appreciate that's pretty impossible to police all the time.

My son was nearly bitten this week at a music group. A 2 year old girl came up to him and put her arms around him to cuddle him then, quick as a flash, she pushed him to the ground and tried to bite him. Her mother and me ran over and she was removed before she managed to get her teeth in. I was quite shocked and upset, as was my son. The girl's mother apologised and was physically reassuring to my son, and then took the girl away from him.

I think that was an entirely appropriate response. She was apologetic and symathetic to me and my son, and physically removed her daughter from the situation telling her that biting wasn't allowed. I can't think of anything else should could have done to be honest and made a mental note that I will handle such a situation in the same way when it happens to me.

My 14 month old, only child at the moment until Feb, is also a delight, few low grade tantrums etc but believe me I am not so naive as to believe it will stay this way. And nor is it down to be my brilliant parenting. I think he's just an easy going little guy at the moment, nice laid back personality like his dad and I'm doing the best I can in terms of parenting. Just like my parents did with me...and then I turned in to a vile, nightmare, monster child from 2-4.

I await the same with baited breath. Gah!

x

[bear73]

I haven't been following this thread but it came up on a google search while looking for help on bad behaviour at nursery.

I felt compelled to reply to Bensmum.

My dd will be 4 in feb, she is a lovely child, well thought of, well disciplined and I have never had any issues with her - until she started nursery. She bit a child today, first time ever, she has also pushed kids aswell in the time she has been there.

She is struggling with nursery, with all the children, with social skills. I was mortified today, I felt awful. She has never done anything like that before and I believe she is parented very well. Sometimes there is nothing you can do but continue to parent well, discipline them and hope it stops.

I like you thought I had a lovely well behaved child who would never dream of hurting anyone. Little did I know. I am now worried sick and posts like your suggesting that a good telling off would work aren't helpful.

My daughter needs help settling and I think she has social skills issues which we are seeking help for. It's a hard learning curve at this age and she just can't cope.

bear

[BettySpaghetti]

In response to the OP both nurseries and the playgroup we've used have policies not to name names (of the biter or victim).

However when I was picking DS up this week the team leader was explaining to a mum that her son had bitten another child but said she couldn't say who he had bitten etc. The "victim" then shouted from the other side of the room " X bit me, X bit me" sending confidentiality out of the window!

[Jimjams2]

that's tru blu. Something my friend (with the ds who was a biter with borderline SN) was told repeatedly by the behavioural support team was to remember that to the child biting is no different from pushing or shoving or grabbing or any of the other horrible things that children do. It's adults who get particularly worked up about it. And as you say if it's being done for the interesting reaction then it's no different from pouring water or throwing yourself on the floor screaming (ds3's trick )

[Blu]

Toddlers do all sorts of things - and have no concept of what it means to hurt someone else - they don't have the mental apparatus, the theory of mind, or whatever it is called.

So I think to attribute biting to either bad parenting or 'bad character' is rather sad - we don't make that judgement about throwing food, unlugging the tv, pouring water in unhelpful places, and all the other things toddlers do for the impact!

[Pitchounette]

Message withdrawn

[Jimjams2]

Yes know what you mean. I remember when ds1 was 4 he (accidentally) shut another little boys hand in a playhouse door. I rushed over and said "now say you're sorry". Which was ridiculous as he can't speak. I still find it difficult if he does something that an apology would standardly be expected - now he's 7 me saying soorry doesn't really cut it, but me standing there saying "say sorry" would be ridiculous as he still can't speak, so then it looks as if he's refusing. He has no concept of "sorry"anyway. There is a big social expectation that children will say sorry even if developmentally they're not there yet!

[LemonTart]

On a similar theme...
Rather contraversially, I am starting to consider whether there are any real benefits in insisting that a child always says sorry. I believe the concept of being sorry is lost on young children. To mine it means "ok mum, you win, it was naughty now please can we talk about something else and not think about it anymore." I don?t think that they really think "I wish I had never done it because it clearly hurt X and that I should have handled it differently". Isn?t there some medical theory that young children are incapable of full empathy and so when they say sorry, how on earth can they be using it correctly.
My kids are always asked to say sorry as I believe that it is important to acknowledge and take responsibility for their actions, to become a habit just as important as please and thank you. However, I am questionning whether they are learning to say it out of habit rather than learning about empathy and right and wrong..
Sorry rather garbled, 2nd glass of wine. if anyone can see their way through my murky thinking, I will be interested to see if anyone can see my POV

[MumtoBen]

Thanks Santa. Sorry you've had a bad few days. I've had my fair share in my life I can assure you.

Jimjams - I would have been so happy to receive the comments you did about your young baby, as mine was so very difficult and so very different from the others and did the opposite from any book. That's why I am so glad things have worked out well since.

[misdee]

i wont take dd3 to toddler groups. not because she bites, but she is a hair puller considering the length of her own locks, and how easily her hair can be pulled, she really shouldnt do it

mind you dd2+dd3 both pulled their own hair by the fistful when they were tiny and made themselves cry. i shouldnt laugh but ONgoodness it was funny.

[Blandmum]

ds is NT, I have no question, but he is 'slow' to mature. We have an ed psych to check him out for dyslexia, but that is the extent of his 'problem' He is just idiosyncratic. Thankfully his teacher has him sussed and he is now making lots of progress.

[Jimjams2]

MB- possibly quite similar. He's at school now still has issues but not SN iykwim.

[Jimjams2]

Comments I had about ds1:

"oh he's the most relxed baby in the antenatal group"

"he's the smiliest happpiest baby here" (every time we went into the drs surgery)

"oh he eats everything he's given isn't he good I've never seena child eat so well"

"he's so laid back"

Boy was I smug. And we're now at the stage when its very hard to take him out in public at all - gentle or not- his behaviour is just too bad. Apparently he did really well in ~Tesco's today and coped with lots of doors opening and closing without refusing to move from them. I measure good behaviour slightly differently these days. (I thought he'd eaten his dinner really well today- meat and veg until I found that he'd carried it in his mouth to another room and spat it out )

[oops]

Message withdrawn

[Blandmum]

JJ, your last paragraph describes ds to a tee!

[Blandmum]

Not read all the thread, but oh god ds was a biter.....awful and so hard to deal with. The last person he bit was, ironicaly a child with ASD, when I grovelled and appologised to his mum she laughed and said, 'I'm jusrt happy it wasn't my ds doing the biting, for a change!'

In the end ds grew out of it.

[Sugarfree]

Keep doing the first thing even when you're not feeling the second thing MumtoBen and you'll do alright.
You sound to me like you're doing a grand job at the moment and thats all that matters.

[SantaGotStuckUpTheGreensleeve]

But that's what annoyed me really, MumtoBen. We ALL love our children desperately and feel proud of them. My 4yo reduced me a sobbing miserable mess yesterday. Today hasn't been much better. He was a model 21mo too.

Sorry I attacked you. You irritated me, but that isn't entirely your fault - I did bring my crap mood in with me.

[Jimjams2]

I said no shit sherlock because the vast majority of biters try to stop it with goood old fashioned discipline to begin with - often if the biting continues you'll see them not responding in public because they know it won't work, but often they have no idea what to do.

IN ds1's case - he went though a pinching episode at nursery- pretty bad as he had about 2 weeks when he went for every child that came within reach. It was essential that he was not told off- because he likes being told off- the louder and shoutier the better, and you can actually go from no behavioural problem too big behavioural problem overnight with him if he gets a shouty response (which in fact was how the pinching started in the first place- he pinched MIL- she hit the roof, hey presto talons out all the time). Nursery were entirely sensible, adopted a very low key response of turning him away when he pinched and the behaviour stopped after 2 weeks until he got to school and had a shouty teacher (and he would hunt her out, go for her quick as lightning and she was covered in scratches. Silly cow- I kept telling her how to respond if she wanted to stop the behaviour). Anyway he changed school to somewhere where they understand autism (ie a special school), give the right response to dodgy behaviour and he's now thought of as one of the sweetest gentlest boys in the school. They understand behavioural management for challenging behaviours and know that a good old fashioned telling off can cause real problems.

DS2 actually does respond pretty well to an old fashioned dose of discipline. DS3 (my feisty one) not at all. Children- even those sharing 50% of their genes- and the same household can need very different responses - they're not all clones.

GS- given your description of the kids you like you would love ds3

I have come across children with kind of borderline SN- not really SN, but perhaps very slow to mature- who have been biters- behavioural teams etc in giving advice, and yet nothing works. I really feel for those poor mums. One friend was unable to take her son out for about 2 years- his development was obviously delayed in some way- he just didn't "get" stuff like not biting etc (and he has a perfectly well behaved younger sister). His poor mother had about a year when she just couldn't go out with him to toddler groups etc- and so of course an already delayed child then had no chance to practice social skills. The behaviour did go away as he finally matured a litttle.

[MumtoBen]

Sugarfree,

Yes I probably am smug as I love my son desperately and am so proud of him. I love getting comments from family, strangers, friends about how lovely my son is. I am always an optimist about how things will turn out.

I like getting other people's opinions on things. I don't like being called names particularly though, just because people don't agree with me.

[Sugarfree]

Oh,that's how you spell "naivety".
Cheers Twigg.

[SantaGotStuckUpTheGreensleeve]

What a marvellous thing diversity is

[Sugarfree]

Oh yes,I agree.What does tomorrow hold? 'Resigned and Martyrish' or 'Couldn't Give a Rat's Arse and A Bit More Cheerful?'

[Twiglett]

personally I am loving mumtoben's optimism and yes wonderfully infectious naivety .. I remember that stage so well its like a flashback

and DS was equally 'sinister' and 'boring' at that stage and I thought he was wonderful. Equally wonderful 5 year old now but totally different child of course

[SantaGotStuckUpTheGreensleeve]

(not much better, sugarfree, but I am exiting the "Tearful and Hopeless" phase and heading into "Bitter and Grumpy" - much more fun)