Nursery charging top up fee £530 a term

[Amelia23]

Hi everyone my daughter will be starting Nursery in september. She will be 3 years 5 months and has never attended any kind of nursery before. Please be kind and advise me as I am completely clueless.
For the autumn term 12th sep-19th dec
the initial charge is £1333
minus nursery fund of £803 leaves me with £530 to pay.
the usual price of morning session 9-1 is £31

my daughter will be doing 12 hours her first term (3 days a week). the Nursery is open during half term and I told the nursery I cannot afford to pay for the whole week so I might send her two days a week at most, which they agreed to.
My daughter will not eat lunch there but will have snacks such as fruit and water and we were asked to pay extra for this and for certain activities, we agreed to this ( obviously I should have asked how much this would cost) as I was so overjoyed that she had got a place.

we were told that she would be able to have the full 15 hours after half term and now I think part of the cost of the £530 is the nursery charging me for an extra hour a week as they would have to let her do 16 hours as they have 4 hour sessions. If they are charging me fairly 1 hour should cost £7.75. This should come to £54 and if are charging me for the half term that should cost £155 but that still leaves over £300 to pay. Could they be charging over £300 for fruit and at most 2-3 activities.

I asked the nursery to send me a breakdown of the costs yesterday by email, but they haven't responded yet. If I find that they are charging over the odds for the extra hour am I within my rights to say I want my daughter to continue at only 12 hours a week. They have sent me the offer letter with a deposit of £200 to pay.
I spoke to the nursery yesterday before they sent the fees and she did sound a little like she was backing out of the deal for the two days a week, she just kept saying look at the fees then decide what you want to do.
Any advice would be appreciated

[Amelia23]

Thank you everyone, you have all been very kind to carry on this discussion with me. I'm sorry if it's been somewhat confusing. English actually is my first language laundryAngel, so now I feel worse than I did before...maybe I should join my daughter at the nursery to bring my English up to scratch.
My daughter was offered full-time places at two different school nurseries. There was absolutely no mention of fees nor contributions of any kind. I applied to one of the school nurseries for a part time place, but was offered full time instead and was told they only had 3 part time places and these were reserved for children with siblings already at the school.
This subject is beyond confusing and I have very little knowledge of the in and outs of nursery politics so thank you again everyone

[Marcipex]

Our preschool would let you do:

5 x 3 hours daily, so 9 until 12 five days a week.

Or 5x3 hours daily, 12 until 3pm. Bring own packed lunch.

Or 9 -3 ie 6 hours on one or two days, plus mornings/afternoons to total 15.

Or any combination of those.

Fruit, cheese, toast, milk, all free mid morning , smaller snack and milk free mid afternoon.
An extra hour eg lunchtime, to extend a morning session until 1 pm , costs £4 , bring packed lunch.

[Itscurtainsforyou]

It's not uncommon around here fit children to be offered full time places at school nurseries, but because the funding is only part time, parents then have to pay a top up of £30-60 per week to cover the extra hours. In these nurseries part time places are not offered at all.
Across the border in another council area, only part time places are offered.

It's a minefield.

[Laundryangel]

Are you sure the pre-schools only offered from 9.00 - 3.30? Unless attached to a private school, that seems unusual as they would only be able to get funding for half of that time from the council and, IME, parents using the village hall type pre-school tend to be using it for socialisation & learning for their children rather than childcare whilst they are at work so either wouldn't want or or couldn't afford to pay for the additional hours. From the style of your emails, I am guessing that English isn't your first language so am wondering if you have missed something in some of the communications.
IME, some village pre-schools offer five mornings only, others offer five afternoons only, others allow you to mix and match, some require you to do 15 hours from week one, others let you build up to it. Requiring 30 hours from the off is unusual.

[Amelia23]

Hi laundry angel I understand what you are saying and the last thing I want to be doing 1 month before my daughter starts nursery is dealing with this, honestly I feel so sad about it, but don't you feel the nursery should have been much more upfront about fees and such. If I knew there was the possibility of fees then that would have been the first thing I would have asked about. Thanks marcipex I hope I can negotiate a little the lady seems kind, but business is business I suppose

[Amelia23]

The letter I have says its a full time place and gives those hours and when I asked if they have part time they said we gave them to people with brothers and sisters at the nursery

[Amelia23]

I applied to school nurseries and they sent me offers of 9-3.30 5 days a week, maybe I was stupid to turn it down but I believe my daughter is not mature enough to cope with that.

[tinkerbellvspredator]

How do you mean you applied for schools and could only get full time place? They will only give you 15 hours maximum, usually 3 hours a day but some will do 2 days of 6 hours and a 1 day of 3 hours.

[Amelia23]

Hi laundry angel thank you for all that, we have spoken to the nursery 2-3 times and very early on I emailed them about the 3 hours a day 4 hour session thing and none of this was ever mentioned by them. I find that really strange and I hope it signals some negotiation might be possible.also I have spoken to them about not having enough money to pay for all of half term so I think they should of mentioned it then at least.

[Marcipex]

Laundry angel has given you the gist of it.
It's even more complicated than that actually. Depending on children's ages etc.
Staffing can be a nightmare.
I really would look for a preschool if I were you. They're listed on Ofsted s site and you can search by postcode.

[Marcipex]

Well to be fair, nursery fees are complicated, but they should have been upfront with you.
I would call them and say you only want xx hours, you don't want extras, you understand 15 hours weekly term time is free, so what are all these ££ hundreds.
Don't be afraid to ask. We've just got a new administrator, for example, but the last one made a zillion mistakes and more bills were wrong than right and staff spend a lot of time apologising.

[Laundryangel]

PS if I was a nursery owner or manager and a parent was already questioning the fees before the child started and childcare was in such short supply in your area as it is in ours, then I would probably sound as though as I was backing out of the deal as I would know that I could find someone to take the place quite easily and that that person would probably need more hours and thus be easier for me to manage. If you are only doing three mornings, they are going to have to find someone who wants to do the three afternoons to make it more cost effective for them...alternatively, they could find someone who wants three days and not have to worry about it.

[Laundryangel]

My understanding of the system is the pre-schools in village halls etc offer the 15 hours for free although may ask for donations whether financial or for things like craft stuff (paints etc rather than just old cereal boxes) or bits for snacks.
Private nurseries can also offer the 15 hours for free but it isn't actually in their interests to do so as they get paid less by the council than they need to charge to break even. So they usually add on extra hours which you have to pay for. For example, a morning session may be 8 - 12.30 but only 3 hours will be free so you have to pay for the extra 1.5 hours. You are only allowed to claim for 3 hours per morning or afternoon so, if you are not doing five sessions, you cannot claim the 15 hours. In your case, as she is only doing three sessions, you would only be able to claim for 9 hours.
Also private nurseries will work out the annual cost and then break it down into termly/monthly fees. So the bill you have been sent will cover a part of the Christmas holidays as well as half term.
Once you do sign up, bear in mind that, if you are claiming the funding, you are likely to be tied into a 12 week notice period so you should decide sooner rather than later whether you can afford this as otherwise you will need to pay the fees for not just this term but the term from Christmas to Easter too.

[Amelia23]

Hi really I am not bothered by her even having the 16 hours it's not a big deal to me 12 hours is fine, but I don't want to be getting less and be charged for it
Thanks everyone for the help
What do people think about the fact that fees were not mentioned earlier

[Marcipex]

They have to give you the free 15 hours. All the rest is to try to make a profit, as the funding is a very very mean amount and they can't make a profit.

Could you find a preschool? Then you'd only pay for the one hour a week you want to make it up to 16.

I've never heard of charging extra for fruit. Our preschool gives fresh fruit, cheese, toast or pitta bread free every day. Milk is also free.

[MaryWestmacott]

Most nurseries are an expensive way to get your 15 hours, it's not really a preschool, it's a nursery for childcare and that's what they are set up for.

You might not be too late to find a place at a preschool only if you don't need wrap around care, email them all in your area. People move over the summer and turn down places.

[Amelia23]

Really I am super confused, I hope she sends me a breakdown by email as if she explains it over the phone my brain might very well melt out my ears. As I said before the only fees she mentioned, were food, activities and half terms..nothing else. I even emailed questioning her about the 4 hour thing and she didn't explain it as a problem or that I would be charged for it. I'm really down thinking about it, not so much the money but the feeling that I don't know if I am being taken advantage of and that there is not much fuss I can make as I don't want to make a problem with the nursery

[PancakesAndMapleSyrup]

P.s. the rules dont apply re that the hours must be free with an independant nurser

[Itscurtainsforyou]

From speaking to other parents, there's a massive difference between nurseries in the way they charge alongside the 15 free hours.

Ours has a set of fees for the cost of a day at nursery using one 1/2 day per day and also for using two 1/2 days.
We send lo for three days, so have two days using two 1/2 days and one day using one 1/2 day. The reduced fees are for wrap-around care (ie to cover 8am-6pm). There are also parents who just use the 15 free hours only.
Other nurseries I heard of give a very small discount from the 15 free hours allowance, stating that x/y/z activities are separate and cost extra.

Best bet is to get a breakdown of cost as you've requested.

[PancakesAndMapleSyrup]

If they are charging you top ups you will get the funding for 15 hours which i think is paid at £3.66 per hour. You will be expected to top up their hourly rate above this. Have you calculated for this? So say one session is 9 to 1, funding is is £14.64. You per session make up the £16.36 shortfall. So for 3 sessions a week you are paying 56.83. This is a really rough calculaion as my numbers are off perhaps the funding has increased. But the logic stays the same you will be paying to top up their hourly rate.

[Amelia23]

Yes but there is only one week half term in the period that they are charging me for so that would be £155, so there is still a charge of £374

[monkeyfacegrace]

Bear in mind funding is only over 39 weeks a year. Most nurseries are open 52 weeks, so that's the difference.

You need to find a term time only 15 hours place.

[Amelia23]

i just remember I emailed the nursery when I first applied about the 3 hours 4 hours thing

"I attended the open morning today and it was very nice to meet you and see just how much the nursery had to offer. I am just wondering if I filled the application in correctly as I am hoping to get my daughter the free 15 hour a week places for when she is 3 and a half . I ticked the 9-1 morning option and am just wondering if that is correct as that would be four hours everyday. Sorry to bother you with this I just wanted to be sure I hadn't missed an option on the form, thank you for your time"

she emailed me back and said

"Yes that's fine. I will call you nearer the time when a space becomes available"

wouldnt that have been the time to tell me about extra charges?

[Amelia23]

thanks for all the help everyone. Insancerre in the first term my daughter is doing 12 hours a weeks at the suggestion of the nursery, so it does seem crazy I would have to pay extra when I am not even using all the hours I am entitled for.

I found this website
www.parentalchoice.co.uk/nursery-education-grant-funding

and these are some rules they lay out


No fees charged for the 15 hours
No conditions of access – for example, parents should not have to buy more hours or pay for lunch to secure a place
No other fees in relation to the free entitlement, for example registration or uniform
No deposit – parents must not have to pay up-front for the free entitlement
No session longer than ten hours
No session shorter than 2.5 hours
Up to 12.5 hours over two days

is there any rule that says a session can only last 3 hours?