Liz Truss and aimless toddlers

[BoffinMum]

So, Liz Truss reckons toddlers are running around pointlessly in too many nurseries. She says it's due to lack of structure in miseries.

Anyone spotted this happening?

[Squarepebbles]

Oh and French children are raised differently to British kids- smacking is used more(I presume not in nursery ) .I hate this constant comparison to other nations. Our country is far smaller and highly populated,kids don't have a lot of free space in the home environment, our culture is different......

One use does not fit all re raising children.

[Squarepebbles]

Size

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Don't you think it's quite helpful to see how things are done in other countries Pebble ? I think the Scandinavian countries have some very inspirational practice we can draw on to develop high quality early years education and child-care in this country for benefit of children, mothers, and families.

No need to re-invent the wheel !

[FunnysInLaJardin]

not sure if this point has been made yet, but you do all know that this is just a ruse to show how her new policy on ratios is badly needed, don't you?

[PetiteRaleuse]

squarepebbles I agree, French children are raised differently, in a way that fits in with the education system here. And that suits France. It isn't better, or worse, just different. The British education system allows for far more creativity and a little less structure (or it did when I went through it) so it is logical that pre school ed is different.

(no smacking in nurseries or schools though in France. Lots of explaining why what they did was wrong and possibly excluded from group for a short period to think on it. Time out, basically.)

[PetiteRaleuse]

That said it is useful to know what others do and pinch and adapt certain things which could work well.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Or to make it look as though of course nurseries could cope with one adult to a hundred children if only they got themselves organised and introduced some structure Jardin ?!

[50shadesofvomit]

Does Liz Truss have kids? This sound bite as well as the recent Gove idea of longer school days and less holidays make me wonder if they know any kids and what makes kids tick?

In my experience nurseries teach manners etc and rather than making the NC more rigid as Gove suggests, they should be encouraging more free play etc in KS1 and beyond. If the government wants to improve behaviour etc it should be training and giving nurseries and schools money to identify special needs earlier so parents don't have to fight for help. Im no expert on SN but I would guess that the earlier you help a child, the more likely intervention is likely to be successful. Also, the reduction in child development checks must mean more kids falling through the cracks and arriving at nursery/school behind in basics like speech.

[Squarepebbles]

There are starting to be concerns re the Scandinavian model- behaviour issues in older children,school standards slipping etc.

We have hoards of experts re early years in our own country there is absolutely no need to cut and paste from other countries. I think it's actually damaging as countries will differ in circumstances,culture,finances etc,etc.

[slatternlymother]

square I read that book 'French Children Don't Throw Food' (i know, i know) and it seemed to suggest that :
a) Doing what you have to do to get young babies sleeping through is more open and acceptable,
and
b) Being a SAHM with NO hours in childcare until they hit school is viewed as quite unusual.

Bearing both of these things in mind, I think that any comparaison with French children is ridiculous, since if they are sleeping more from an earlier age, then they'll probably be more receptive from not being so tired and needing less sleep during the day. Also, seeing as you don't get any free childcare in this country until the term after the child is 3, at that point; you're going to have a real mixture of abilities surely, than if you'd been offered 2 or 3 sessions a week from age 1, say. Simply because their personalities are more set by then.

And not being funny, but if you suddenly take a 3 year old who's previously been Mum's focus, and used to their routine at home and not being around 30 or 40 other kids on a regular basis, and put them in a nursery setting... It's going to be harder for that child to suddenly be in that environment, isn't it surely?

[amyboo]

I could have written your post kelda. DS1 was born here in Belgium and now aged 3 he's in the introductory class at maternelle. He has absolutely thrived on the structure and activities they do at school. He gets library time, gym time, lots of outdoor play, arts and crafts and even a few excursions. Despite being only 3, he is expected to losten to the teacher, sit still/quietly when asked, take himself to the toilet (although gets helps for number 2s), and generally be polite and respectful to the other children. I have two nephews in the UK who would definitely have benefitted from being in a similar structure - their discipline, concentration and eating habits are dire!

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I am gutted by the actions and words of this government .... first I noticed cuts to Children's Centres, then I lost my job, then I realised thousands of other women (and men) have too, benefits cuts for the vulnerable, more children growing up in poverty ..... but now they are looking like destroying the early years education of a generation when all the research shows that investment in this is so massively rewarded both socially and even economically (aprox a x7 return on investment)

[50shadesofvomit]

Im also perplexed about the aimless adjective. I've seen kids run around and Ill be surprised if it was aimless. How does she know its aimless and the child isn't imagining that they are a car, fairy or enjoying the sensation of running around?
It sounds like the government want to start quantifying nurseries like schools are. How long until 2 year olds get grades and have curriculums decided by central government?

[Squarepebbles]

Also if they're used to short sharp punishments they're going to be more accommodating in nursery.

[FunnysInLaJardin]

quite Juggling. Dreadful woman that she is

[Squarepebbles]

Let's not forget her children have a nanny.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

There is already a curriculum for Early years settings (The EYFS produced by government advisers I believe), which actually now includes developmental milestones and suggestions for good practice from birth 50shades

But it's OK, I quite like it - well structured and written, and has play at it's heart !

[PoppyWearer]

I hadn't clicked that this was Liz Truss spouting all this stuff on nurseries.



Interesting...

[AmberSocks]

i dont think we should be taking any tips from other countries when it comes to whacking them in a nursery at such a young age,not sure if this is true but in Sweden(i think) nursery is compulsory from age 1.

[slatternlymother]

But square I think the childcare model reflects the current 'baby lead' idea the NHS promotes when you come home with your baby on Day 1. I'm not saying it doesn't work for some, but I think it leaves an awful lot in the hands of the parent. With respect, you don't need qualifications to become a parent.
And I feel like when I went to the HV, out of my mind with sleep deprevation, perhaps it would have been helpful for her to help me devise a routine. But all she said was; 'baby will find his own routine', which to be perfectly honest, was an easy way out for her. I was asking her what to do with my nocturnal child, and instead of even pointing me in the right direction, she may as well have said 'fuck knows. Find your own way.'

Which seems to be the attitude for most early childhood issues, tbh.

I know this isn't really what the OP's thread was about, but I think 'Baby Lead' is a pre cursor to the Scandinavian Model described above. And whilst it suits some, it actually doesn't suit a lot of people. More than you'd think, actually.

[codswallopandchips]

The thing with the comparison with Nordic (and other) countries is that (as someone said above) you can't just cherry pick the bits you like. There's a whole culture and national consciousness that feeds into it, so it's not just waiting to go to school age 7, it's a sense of social responsibility that's inherent in everyday society, it's the high status of the role of teacher, it's well paid, extensive, mat leave for both parents, it's no formal exams until very late teens, no tracking or streaming etc et-fucking-cetera

[pnin]

Liz Truss has two children and has a nanny.

I'm not sure if she's referring to daycare nursery or to half=-day preschool as you head into reception?

She is obviously trying to justify her plans to increase the number of

Gove, Truss, they are trying to take us back to some halcyon days when 6 month olds were out of nappies, 2 year olds could write and , . And comparing to the nirvana that is the French system is misguided. As if les petits are sitting nicely in their Bonpoint knocking out paper chains and eating their dejeuner in silence is some kind of ideal.

You want some order but you don't want obedience at that age. You want attention and engagement and freedom.

I say this as someone who was quite keen and on top of structured stuff with my first and who was eventually (thankfully
and in time), humbled by my MIL (ex-teacher) and backed off. I'm glad. I could have ruined something quite delicate

[AmberSocks]

or it might of been iceland.

[MajaBiene]

Nursery is available, not compulsory Amber.

[slatternlymother]

Amber no, not suggesting for a minute you should be putting kids in nursery from age 1. What I am suggesting is the reason kids in France might be more structured in nursery, is because they've been in longer than a British 3 year old, so they will be more adapted to it.