Webchat with Dr Carine Minne and Juliet Rosenfeld on coping during lockdown, Tuesday 28 April at 9pm

[BojanaMumsnet]

Hello

We’re pleased to announce a webchat with Dr Carine Minne and Juliet Rosenfeld, Tuesday 28 April at 9pm.

Dr Carine Minne is a Fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists, London and a Psychoanalyst with the British Psychoanalytical Society. She trained as a Forensic Psychiatrist and Psychotherapist and is Consultant Psychiatrist in Forensic Psychotherapy in the NHS. She is President of the International Association for Forensic Psychotherapy.

Juliet Rosenfeld is a psychotherapist working in private practice in North London and Trustee of the UKCP. She is a member of the BACP and UKCP and a Patron of Camden Psychotherapy Unit where she trained with patients. She qualified in 2012 and has written for various publications on therapy and bereavement. Most recently she published her first book, The State Of Disbelief (Short Books 2020) about the impact of bereavement clinically and personally when her husband Andrew died in 2015.

Please note that Juliet and Carine work with adults only. Any posts made by Juliet and Carine on this thread will be their own opinions and not representative of any of the organisations they belong to. They will not be able to make diagnoses online on the webchat, but will be able to provide general answers/comments in response to users' posts.

In this webchat, they will be able to respond to questions on topics relating to the coronavirus crisis (including effects of lockdown measures) such as anxieties, impact of separations and closeness on relationships, stress, grief and fear of dying. They say their hope for this webchat is to emphasise the importance of communicating difficult feelings to trusted adults, family, friends or professionals.

Please join us here on Tuesday (tomorrow) at 9pm to post a question, or if you can’t join us then, please post up your question in advance.

As always, please remember our guidelines - one question per user, follow-ups only if there’s time and most questions have been answered, and please keep it civil. Also if one topic is dominating a thread, mods might request that people don't continue to post what's effectively the same question or point. (We may suspend the accounts of anyone who continues after we've posted to ask people to stop, so please take note.) Rest assured we will ALWAYS let the guest know that it's an area of concern to multiple users and will encourage them to engage with those questions.

Many thanks,
MNHQ

[BadLady]

I think this thread is closed, so you may want to repost on an active board such as "health" or "relationships".

[Meesh29]

Also mild cramping on my left side

[Meesh29]

I'm currently 4dpo , had sex during my fertile window and then day of ovulation , I keep strict track of my period .
I've noticed I have frequent urination , dizziness , cravings for spicy food , I feel nauseous for an hour after I eat . My boobs are start to get swollen. My period is due May 10th so I know some of these symptoms are period related ... Also am I just going crazy ???

[Momma707]

Hi everyone!
Super sad and stressed out so I'll make this post easiest to understand as possible. I have very irregular periods and dont remember when my last was maybe march 20? Anyways took a test April 4th because my breast hurt and it was SO NEG. Well tried again april 14th bc I was super nauseous. It was positive SO fast I wasn't even done peeing LOL. Well I've taken about 8 all.+. Well last week April 19th I had slight pink spotting only when I pee. I went to dr they did bloods and a US. Well HCG was 17500 but scan showed no embryo ..the sac is just empty. They scheduled me for a follow up 7 days later with ob, did blood today so I'll know if HCG is going up, but US still shows empty sac. Has anyone had this happen and eventually it showed a baby? The fact my levels are so high they said its most likely ectopic or going to be non viable but I'm holding out hope.

[GJmum2b]

Hey, I’m a first time mum to be and I’m really struggling.
Despite lockdown I’m still working full time as a nurse and I’m struggling. 24/7 first trimester nausea, fatigue, headaches, loneliness seem to have taken over my entire life.
My husband is doing his best, but doesn’t seem to get it. We have our first scan in 2 weeks and with then be able to lean on friends and family for support.
I guess I’m looking for reassurance that this is all normal and I’m not alone in this???

[Barmychick]

I'm with you jellycat. Though not especially lonely I'm old school and arthritic so it's easier to call than txt. Also you can more gauge the mood of that person. Sadly people forget the social mores/ kindnesses at times e.g. not calling / text ing to say happy birthday( has happened to me) i hope you are feeling bit better & get good responses from people best wishes

[Foxglade]

@CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld Oh wow I didn't realise you would be relying this evening, I'm so pleased I logged on.

I hadn't even thought he might be a little envious of the fact I am working, but you're right, I think he much rather wishes he was at work. I love the idea about proposing different bedtimes for the week and the weekend - it sounds like such a simple solution but one that could really work.

I would write more but I am actually feeling tired - even though it is "only" 11:26pm and so I am going to go up to bed with a book, which always sends me off to sleep, and leave DH down here.

Thank you so much. I feel really held in mind, which means a lot

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@JamieLeeCurtains

Actually if there's time please may I ask a follow-up question, which alludes to what a couple other posters have said?

It's about 'The Scaffold' metaphor.

What if you have no Scaffold? And what if you are someone else's Scaffold who can't give much back, and you're crumbling?

Hello again @JamieLeeCurtains - yes let us answer this more fully.

The 'scaffold' we are thinking of is a structure which supports the mind at a time of crisis like this - when old feelings alongside new ones get mobilised. Everyone can build a kind of scaffolding - we're referring to it here as a kind of daily routine. The purpose is to have punctuation marks throughout the day that you can refer to - eg exercise, one healthy meal, one contact ( at least) with a family member or friend, not overdoing listening to news or social media, and a book rather than a device as bedtime. That's all. It sounds a bit simplistic but it can nevertheless be a helpful anchor at a time when some people are at risk of feeling totally at a loss. Hope this makes sense. Best wishes again.

[missingmydad]

Thank you for your lovely answer, especially as you had so many.
We will be getting his ashes at some point and will hopefully be able to scatter them in the future.

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@MiniMum97

Hi Thanks for your reply. I am trying to exercise daily and walking in particular seems very good at reducing my anxiety. Sounds like there is not i much more I can be doing. We are trying to eat healthily, get plenty of sleep, meditate and get regular exercise. The routine thing is tricky as I also have ADHD so not so great at a set routine. I am also doing a BDD CBT series of modules that I found online. Sounds like I just keep doing what I am doing! I was very bad a couple of weeks ago but am doing a little better the last few days, just frightened of it being triggered again!

You are right in that I was really doing well prior to this current episode so need to hold onto the fact that I can get there again.

Thanks again for your reply.

Very well done indeed. You're doing so well @MiniMum97

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@Greensmurf1

My anxiety is making me very irritable and hypersensitive to the discomfort of disorder, noise, stresses and disappointments. I am arguing and nagging my family members to try and restore orde but they get resentful and I feel guilty and end up overly critical and depressed.
I feel like I can’t get anything right, I don’t think my husband understands at all. It makes my parents anxious and upset when I talk to them and I am worried about dumping my anxiety on my friends.

Dear @Greensmurf1 So sorry to hear about you and your family getting caught up in this typical cycle under such circumstances. Very hard to manage when everyone feels needy at the same time. Would it be possible for you and your husband to have a discussion about what it is like for both of you when everyone has competing needs and demands simultaneously. Can you see if you can devise a way of taking it in turns to feel as if you are the one that needs looking after? It might also be helpful to feel a bit more compassionate towards yourself so that you don't further assault yourself with guilt for your totally understandable feelings. Don't worry about dumping anxiety on your friends as long as you ensure a two way street is maintained. The lockdown situation will not go on forever. Best to you.

[Anonymouswasawoman]

Thank you very much for your reply!

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@missingmydad

My Dad died just as all this was starting off and now everywhere is all about death and dying. It's making it very hard to grieve, especially as we had no funeral and have not been able to scatter his ashes or get together as a family. I am at a loss to know how to cope with such a major bereavement.

Dear @missingmydad first of all, what a horrible time you have had. It is so painful to not even have been able to have had even a funeral. We are so sorry to hear this and so sorry for your loss. Perhaps the only comfort or solace is that this is shared between all of you. Might there be a way of transposing this 'missed' funeral into a memorial to celebrate his life? In terms of how you are feeling, you are right that it is even harder to make any sense or to believe that this has actually happened because you've been denied - for the moment - any of the ritual that would normally be in place. Could you as a family find a way of connecting and working now to acknowledge your grief, shock and probably anger, considering how to plan for something that commemorates his importance, once you can all get together. It's so sad and so hard. Our hearts go out to you tonight, sorry it has taken an hour and a half to get to your question.

[MiniMum97]

Hi Thanks for your reply. I am trying to exercise daily and walking in particular seems very good at reducing my anxiety. Sounds like there is not i much more I can be doing. We are trying to eat healthily, get plenty of sleep, meditate and get regular exercise. The routine thing is tricky as I also have ADHD so not so great at a set routine. I am also doing a BDD CBT series of modules that I found online. Sounds like I just keep doing what I am doing! I was very bad a couple of weeks ago but am doing a little better the last few days, just frightened of it being triggered again!

You are right in that I was really doing well prior to this current episode so need to hold onto the fact that I can get there again.

Thanks again for your reply.

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@ThelmaDinkley

Hi, I suffer from depression and anxiety. I take medication for this. I’m finding it really hard to get motivated and some days it’s a struggle getting out of bed. Have you any tips I could use please. Many thanks.

Hello @ThelmaDinkley
We're really so sorry to hear you're struggling to retrieve your motivation. It's really hard. Without repeating ourselves we do think creating a daily structure ( scaffolding) for you to be able to grab when you wake up to assist you through your struggle, which is so understandable. Can you find a way to get yourself quite literally into the vertical position, and begin your set daily tasks. People on medication for depression and anxiety benefit as much as anyone from the natural endorphins that come from exercise. It may sound exaggerated but even moving your body for ten minutes will make a difference. Our best to you.

[MiniMum97]

Hi Further to my post above, which I think you will be coming to in a sec, I know my GP/mental health services are available. I am not interested in accessing these services at the current time. I don't think they will have anything additional to offer than the strategies I am already employing. Many thanks.

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@MiniMum97

My situation is similar to *@greengreenland*, I have BDD and am finding that it is completely out of control at the moment after being in remission for a long time. It's constantly being triggered. I get one episode under control and it's triggered again. My normal strategies (CBT and mindfulness) aren't cutting it. I think the lack of control and anxiety re C19 seem to be affecting/triggering existing mental health conditions. I know other people I speak to through work who have underlying mental health issues are saying the same thing.

Any advice about how to manage this other than continuing to use existing strategies?. My BDD being triggered constantly is making it so much harder for both me and my husband to manage.

Dear @MiniMum97 This sounds extremely difficult for you. Having been in remission for a long time before this however means you do have capacity to retrieve this again when this crisis is over. If your usual coping strategies are really not working we think do contact your GP for support during this time. Covid 19 is affecting everyone but of course people with pre-existing mental health symptoms are experiencing their symptoms in an even more severe way than usual. We really can't stress enough the importance of a regular structure to the day, including exercise. If you can't get outside there is a lot online that is free and will give you a boost of your own natural endorphins. This might make your usual strategies work a little better, but if not don't delay and contact your GP. Best from us both.

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@greengreenland

I would be grateful for any quick coping strategies you could suggest to help me when I start to catastrophise everything. It sends me on a nose dive downwards and once I'm on that track, it feels it's a one way street. Also are there any tips on how to get out when I feel like I'm at the bottom of a well?

I suffer from ARFID associated with a emetophobia and what I have now come to realise were coping mechanisms have been taken away. The anxiety and needing to be able to control something in my life expressed itself as this ED, so it's now having an absolute field day. Any advice would be appreciated.

Dear @greengreenland, thank you for getting in touch. The part of you that wrote in is the part of you that is coping. Do make use of this part of your mind whilst accepting the other part of your mind that feels much worse than usual. You don't mention anyone in your message but we hope that you can reach out to someone that you trust. No-one need be alone and if you can't access any family or friends please do seek professional help, via your GP in the first instance. Very good wishes to you.

[Esker]

Thank you very much for the response, really helpful suggestions, especially about ensuring that the other person doesn’t feel pressured to reply. Many thanks!

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@Anonymouswasawoman

I live alone and struggle with anxiety and depression.
The lack of social contact is really getting to me, as is the general uncertainty of what's going to happen and fear of me or loved ones possibly getting infected. It seems like this situation could be going on for a long, long time and the thought of not getting to hug someone for maybe a year is, well, terrible.
I usually cope the best when I spend time with others but this isn't possible right now in the usual way. I'm trying to stay away from negative coping behaviours like overeating and online shopping. Any advice for this type of situation? Sadly, it must be pretty common right now.

Hello @Anonymouswasawoman it is wonderful you do have loved ones. Make contact with them and tell them you need them and you miss them. You might discover they are just as worried about you as you are about them. Have you tried Zoom times and eating a meal together, actually much more palatable that you might think. It's really good you're aware of your negative coping behaviours so do consider making a structure for your day with one of two loved one contacts - exercise - healthy eating etc and perhaps a once a week sensible shop online as a small reward for managing. See if you can try accepting the bad feelings because they are so normal to have at this time and you are most definitely not alone with those. Thank you for making contact.

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@Esker

I count myself very fortunate to be in lock down in a comfortable home with family members, but I have several friends who live alone, one of whom is extremely ill with an eating disorder (and has been for many years). Do you have any suggestions about how to support those on their own, or ways to check in on people's well being, without coming across as overbearing, particularly when the person in question may be very private or sensitive about their condition?

Dear Esker, how generous of you to ask this question, given some of us can get carried away with needing to be needed. We're most impressed by how you don't want to intrude! In haste, texts can allow to respond esp if an offer is made adding that it is fine not to respond. Consider sharing your own feelings so your friend doesn't feel that they are the pathetic or burdensome one, ie make it a two way street. Thank you for your thoughtful question.

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@LaureBerthaud

I can't shake off the feeling we're being treated with ... I suppose contempt is the word I'm looking for Contempt is the perfect word *@JamieLeeCurtains*

Juliet - I've read excerpts from your book where you discuss your husband's absolute refusal to discuss the possibility that he might die despite the very grim prognosis from the outset. Do you think that might be at the root of the hysterical reactions to this pandemic (of which I'm occasionally guilty) - our refusal to accept that death is a natural part of life, that young people have always died and that, whilst it's sad when an elderly person dies, it's not "tragic" nor have they been "robbed" of a few more years? No one has the right to a long life.

Hello @LaureBerthaud you're absolutely right it seems that in this country death does tend to be hidden, avoided or denied, even, despite the fact it is a universal fact. This pandemic has exposed us to the d-word and perhaps is an opportunity to review death and its certainty. You're also right, that denial makes things much more difficult subsequently, even if it seems useful at the time.
To your other question we are of course hoping that most people have family or a friend they can really share feelings with. Someone to just listen to how this all feels. If this isn' t enough a first port of call should be your GP who is generally in the best position to signpost for NHS therapies, or other organisations that provide. Thank you for your observations too.

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@herecomesthsun

I have found myself, in the course of my work, having to discuss arrangements around end of life repeatedly with families - particularly because of issues with covid. I find myself reliving my mother's death every time. I am self-isolating (now work from home)and I am also finding myself thinking a lot about members of my family who have died. The whole family is staying indoors because 2 of us could get very ill if we get covid and one child has said to me that they don't want to go out because they are scared they will get covid and give it to me and I will die. (They have seen me very ill). This however seems to be pretty much the reality of where we are - and it isn't clear when that will be changing. We are doing work/schooling kids and they do not seem distressed. I have bubblebaths or read or browse online or watch online art or bake or clean the house to relax. Any thoughts on how to make things any better?

Dear Herecomesthesun
We felt it was wonderful you and your children are managing to have this time together and talk about their worries. Children can feel very omnipotent and worry that their ordinary bad moods or feeling cross can cause bad things to happen. Reassure them that none of this is their fault. Your work and personal experience put particular pressure on you and we very much felt that those painful insights will be of use to you - almost as a springboard if it is possible to manage how hard this.. Can you look at them as contributing some resilience? The only way things can be better we think at the moment is helping people to gently stay with the difficult worried feelings - they can't be 'magicked' away or split off. On the other hand we all have to get through this and everyone's personal history will inform their current way of managing today's difficulties. Well done with the home schooling, no easy task at all.

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@JamieLeeCurtains

I've got terrible insomnia. I'm worried about money. I'm also really concerned about my young adult children in their early 20s who are up to their necks in student loan debt, now out of work, and despondent about the future.

I can't shake off the feeling we're being treated with ... I suppose contempt is the word I'm looking for. As though our lives are meaningless in an illogical universe. (Sorry to get all existential.) Is it ok to be angry about this?

Anyway thanks for doing the webchat discussion.

Dear JamieLee, It is absolutely ok to be angry about this and we would be worried if you weren't. Regarding insomnia try the tips we have already mentioned to @Foxglade. Regarding money worries we are sure you have checked out what the govt may give you help with. However we both agreed it is a great thing for your adult children that you are so appropriately concerned for them. Make sure you encourage them to also talk to trusted friends and remind them this is a shared awful experience. You're not alone with it. Uncertainty is a big producer of anxiety and one way of managing anxiety is despondency. But this is all temporary and once the crisis relents, despite serious money worries, minds will clear and find ways through ongoing difficult situations.

[CarineMinneandJulietRosenfeld]

@Foxglade

I’m working from home full time but DH is furloughed. He has taken to having long lie ins and going to bed later and later (which is fine), even before all this he was a night owl.

However I find it really hard to fall asleep if he is still up, for whatever reason. So now I’ve gradually ended up going to bed at 2am, same as him, difference being I have to be up at 8am to work!

I’ve started to think about taking a sleeping tablet at 10:30 for a few days to force myself to fall asleep earlier and hopefully reset my system. Is there anything else that might help?

Foxglade, hello. Sorry if this is brief but we are going to try and get through as many as possible. We understand that sleep patterns have changed - he might wish he could work at home as you do and you might envy his freedom to lie in! Do review the shared chores and have an open conversation about this temporary huge change. Try and avoid going straight onto sleeping tablets if you possibly can and try usual recommendations ( no alcohol no caffeine, no devices - camomile or valerian tea) - and also what about sleeping separately if possible until a compromise can be reached. Compromise could something like Sunday to Thursday normal bedtime for both - Friday- Sat as an echo of pre-Covid life. Wishing you all the best.