Webchat with Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett and Holly Baxter, co-founders of The Vagenda, TONIGHT (Tuesday 6 May) between 9 and 10pm

[RachelMumsnet]

We're running a webchat with The Vagenda co-founders Rhiannon and Holly on Tuesday (6 May) evening between 9 and 10pm. Have a look at the video below to get an idea of what their new book The Vagenda: a Zero Tolerance Guide to the Media is all about.

Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett and Holly Baxter co-founded The Vagenda site in February 2012. It was a viral sensation - perceived as spearheading a resurgence of feminism aimed at younger women - and received over 7 million views in its first year. Caitlin Moran described it as "Really funny. Like, really funny".

Their recently published book The Vagenda: A Zero Tolerance Guide to the Media asks the question: 'why can't we have a media that reflects who we actually are?'. It's been described as 'a brilliantly bolshy rallying call to girls and women of all ages' - come and join the discussion and chat to Holly and Rhiannon on Tuesday evening between 9 and 10pm. For those who can't join us, feel free to post up a question ahead of the webchat on this thread.

[CailinDana]

Referring to a woman's appearance when talking about her professionally is sexist. A good rule of thumb is, if you wouldn't say it about a man, then don't say it about a woman. I can't see any situation where you would talk about a male journalist in terms of his grooming unless the point you were making was specifically about his personal hygiene or looks. She might refer a lot to her own grooming - you doing it only indicates to me that you haven't examined your own language and how you refer to fellow women.

I don't mean to be combative, but these things do matter and if you're purporting to be a strong voice for feminism then you do need to be mindful of it.

[HollyBaxter]

@ezinma

The mainstream media took quickly to you and to Vagenda. Is that evidence that within the MSM new spaces are opening up to a feminist message? Do you ever think: "why us?" Do you feel you have responsibilities as the "voices of young feminism" in the MSM? And how can you expand and improve the representation of women and women's issues in the media that employ you?

We actually started the Vagenda as a general humour site for women, rather than a consciously feminist website. When the media picked us up and started touting us as evidence of the fourth wave of feminism, we were of course delighted - we're both proud to call ourselves feminists.

Because we were presented in this way, there has been a lot of pressure on us to be, as you say, "voices of young feminism." I'm sure it hasn't passed you by that every time a woman appears in the media, it's demanded that she speak for all women! As much as we love being a part of what's happening in the media right now, we can't pretend to speak for all women, young or old, and you're very right when you suggest that a more diverse representation is desperately needed.

What we've done with the Vagenda is try to give a platform to as many women as possible, from as many different backgrounds and with as many different experiences. Many of these women have gone on to have successful media careers partly because of writing for us! But yep, you're right, being seen as voices with authority is massively scary. All we can do is write what we know from ourselves and our contributors, and hope that we've done you proud!

[HollyBaxter]

@Darkesteyes

Holly and Rhiannon have you ever seen an old copy of (now defunct) Scarlet magazine Their policy was no diets. It was a raunchy mag for women complete with an erotic fiction section in the middle.

Haha, sounds brilliant! We've heard that they're relaunching online soon, so we'll be looking out for them.

[Darkesteyes]

So will I

[RhiannonLucyCosslett]

@BuffytheReasonableFeminist

Hi Holly and Rhiannon, thanks for coming to chat to us.

I have a 7-year-old daughter. What advice would you give your 7-year-old self (or what would you like your mum to have told you then)?

Hello. What a great username.
My mum was always great at telling me that it was what was inside that counted and not what was outside, but sadly that didn't stop the media affecting my confidence in a pretty bad way as a teenager. I really don't think there is that much she could have done. At the time I thought I knew it all and that her second wave feminist views were irrelevant. Ever the rebellious daughter! Though she feels vindicated now.

I think if I could go back and talk to my seven year old self I would tell her not to believe everything she reads, that the world is made up of all different kinds of women with different passions, cultures and interests, and I'd encourage her to find out about them. I was always reading Horrible Histories books back then, but they seemed mostly to be about men, so I would have liked to have found out about some women I could look up to and whose stories I could enjoy.

I'd also tell her that no one is perfect so why should you be?! Again, my mum's advice.

[HollyBaxter]

@CailinDana

Referring to a woman's appearance when talking about her professionally is sexist. A good rule of thumb is, if you wouldn't say it about a man, then don't say it about a woman. I can't see any situation where you would talk about a male journalist in terms of his grooming unless the point you were making was specifically about his personal hygiene or looks. She might refer a lot to her own grooming - you doing it only indicates to me that you haven't examined your own language and how you refer to fellow women.

I don't mean to be combative, but these things do matter and if you're purporting to be a strong voice for feminism then you do need to be mindful of it.

Absolutely agree with your Moran-esque philosophy that if the men aren't doing it, then the women should ask why they have to! However, in terms of referring to HGB's "perfectly manicured hand on the helm", this was in a chapter where we discussed her specific brand of journalism: one that revolved, in Cosmopolitan, a lot around sex and beauty tips. We might not have made that comment about someone who was, say, a war correspondent, but in context it seemed appropriate.

Of course I agree that we should always be careful with our language!

[scallopsrgreat]

"We wanted our book cover to have that in the backdrop, with our title in the foreground to draw attention to the satire." But it isn't satire. It's more of the same. I'm not understanding what's powerful about it. It's just more objectification of women.

[Darkesteyes]

Your mum sounds great Rhiannon. In my case I was brought up with my mother telling me that how I looked was the most important thing. She also didn't like the fact that I loved/love to read. In this case it may have been cultural (my mum was brought up in Italy) so finding feminism as I got older has been a Godsend.
This is why I think what Vagenda and Everyday Sexism are doing is so important. Because misogynistic influences can happen in the home without magazines being involved. And because of what you and Laura Bates and others are doing it shows young women today that there are choices. Something I thought wasn't possible while growing up in the 80s.

[RhiannonLucyCosslett]

@scallopsrgreat

"We wanted our book cover to have that in the backdrop, with our title in the foreground to draw attention to the satire." But it isn't satire. It's more of the same. I'm not understanding what's powerful about it. It's just more objectification of women.

It's taking a typically objectifying image and subverting it to show that there is another agenda beneath. I think it would be a stretch to look at our book cover, where it's very clear that the page has been ripped away in disgust, and to see it as an endorsement of the objectification of women, but you are of course entitled to your opinion.

The idea for the cover came from an art movement I studied at uni, which used to take already existing advertising images and change them in some way to make a political point.

[RachelMumsnet]

Sorry we seem to experiencing some probs with the site running slowly. Holly and Rhiannon are still with us and will wait around to see if there's any further Qs.

[HollyBaxter]

We're off now, everyone, but thanks so much for the interesting discussion and the probing questions! If you do want to visit the online magazine, it's at //www.vagendamagazine.com - and you can buy the book, if it sounds like your bag (or your daughter's or son's!) at www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/rhiannon+lucy+cosslett/holly+baxter/the+vagenda3a+a+zero+tolerance+guide+to+the+media/9768994/

Thanks again for having us x

[RhiannonLucyCosslett]

@HollyBaxter

We're off now, everyone, but thanks so much for the interesting discussion and the probing questions! If you do want to visit the online magazine, it's at //www.vagendamagazine.com - and you can buy the book, if it sounds like your bag (or your daughter's or son's!) at www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/rhiannon+lucy+cosslett/holly+baxter/the+vagenda3a+a+zero+tolerance+guide+to+the+media/9768994/

Thanks again for having us x

Thanks so much for having us from me too! We were having a bit of trouble refreshing the thread - hope it hasn't deterred too many of you. You can always drop us a line at [email protected], especially if you're interested in writing for us. Thanks again x