Measles outbreak and MMR vaccinations: live webchat with Department of Health director of immunisation Professor David Salisbury, Tuesday 9 April, 2-3pm

[GeraldineMumsnet]

In light of the measles outbreaks in South Wales and higher than average levels of measles in some areas of England, and concerns reflected in MNers' discussions, we've invited Professor David Salisbury, the government's director of immunisation, back to MN to be our webchat guest tomorrow, Tuesday 9 April, at 2pm.

Please post any questions you have about the MMR vaccine for your children, or yourself, to Professor Salisbury.

Thank you.

[5madthings]

Ah right thanks. Skimmed back and didn't see it sorry.

[hawthornthree]

I am glad there was no pressure. Still, very odd judgement call from MNHQ. Glad you have reinstated the posts. Do wonder if you all ought to have a meeting about moderating threads.

[HelenMumsnet]

@hawthornthree

I am glad there was no pressure. Still, very odd judgement call from MNHQ. Glad you have reinstated the posts. Do wonder if you all ought to have a meeting about moderating threads.

We meet and talk all the time, hawthorntree. The last thing we should be doing is operating in a vacuum.

The team who respond to reports (we don't moderate, as such) are incredibly dedicated and hard-working and conscientious but we are human and we do sometimes make mistakes. What matters, I think, is that we hold our hands up when we make mistakes, explain ourselves and apologise. Which is exactly what we're doing here.

[saintlyjimjams]

Vaccines saying 'I tried to meet with you but you were too busy to see me' was not polite?

Seriously?

[HelenMumsnet]

@mayajan

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

This one was a 'proper' spammer, by the way - in case you were wondering...

[HelenMumsnet]

@saintlyjimjams

Vaccines saying 'I tried to meet with you but you were too busy to see me' was not polite?

Seriously?

Actually, that's not what she said, jimjams. She accused Salisbury of ignoring sick children suffering in pain and sweeping stuff under the carpet.

[hawthornthree]

Good to hear Helen, I hope when these mistakes do happen, that meetings are had and lessons are learned.

[Beachcomber]

But the government did sweep the Urabe fiasco under the carpet - and Professor Salisbury was part of the committee who made the decision to introduce this known to be dangerous vaccine. The Lancet children and thousands like them have had their suffering ignored by the government and its officials.

For a long time the government ignored studies which clearly demonstrated that children with regressive autism often have very serious and painful intestinal issues. Indeed the whole notion was hotly contested although it now is pretty much accepted. Children have been denied proper medical care as a result of this.

Well, thank you MNHQ for listening and at least reinstating some of Vaccine's words.

I understand that we should be civil to guests but let's be frank - it does rather make any invitation of a political figure just an exercise in PR and provide a free platform for them if we are not allowed to be critical or state facts. (Which is why I didn't bother to join in the actual webchat - no point as there will be no real discussion. I understand that MN is a forum and not the internet equivalent of Question Time but as I said before, webchats like this one are all about flannely shite politics, and IMHO rather insulting to MNers intelligence.)

[HelenMumsnet]

@Beachcomber

But the government did sweep the Urabe fiasco under the carpet - and Professor Salisbury was part of the committee who made the decision to introduce this known to be dangerous vaccine. The Lancet children and thousands like them have had their suffering ignored by the government and its officials.

For a long time the government ignored studies which clearly demonstrated that children with regressive autism often have very serious and painful intestinal issues. Indeed the whole notion was hotly contested although it now is pretty much accepted. Children have been denied proper medical care as a result of this.

Well, thank you MNHQ for listening and at least reinstating some of Vaccine's words.

I understand that we should be civil to guests but let's be frank - it does rather make any invitation of a political figure just an exercise in PR and provide a free platform for them if we are not allowed to be critical or state facts. (Which is why I didn't bother to join in the actual webchat - no point as there will be no real discussion. I understand that MN is a forum and not the internet equivalent of Question Time but as I said before, webchats like this one are all about flannely shite politics, and IMHO rather insulting to MNers intelligence.)

We're sorry you feel like that, Beachcomber.

It was our decision to invited Prof Salisbury for a webchat, after we clocked many many threads voicing concern about the measles outbreaks and asking for advice and info.

To be clear, we have no problem with any MNer criticising a webchat guest's opinions or policies. We would never delete posts of that nature.

But we don't think it's right that folks we invite for a webchat should be bombarded with insulting personal slights (not that Prof Salisbury was, I hasten to add, but it has happened in the past).

We hope that every MN webchat is robust and challenging and thought-provoking and we do think they can be all of those things while also being generally civilised and respectful towards the guest we've invited along.

[Beachcomber]

Thank you Helen for your reply.

I think as long as officials like Professor Salisbury refuse to answer questions on why Urabe strain MMR vaccines were introduced to the UK when they were known to be dangerous, there is little point in expecting anything other than waffle and parroting of (unjustified) government policy. The question was asked directly to him on this thread and his reply was evasive politcospeak.

The answer was that the Urabe strain vaccines were significantly cheaper and the government wanted to favour a British company over an American company. (Surely not that hard to spit out!)

I appreciate that MNHQ thought Professor Salisbury was an appropriate guest given the number of measles threads at the moment, but his job is to repeat the official line and the official line has been failing to reassure parents for decades now.

[SimLondon]

Well I still can't see Vaccines first four posts? can anyone else?

[OCRNL]

Bit of a latecomer to this thread but I still can't see Vaccines first 4 posts either.

[HelenMumsnet]

@SimLondon

Well I still can't see Vaccines first four posts? can anyone else?

Gah! Sorry, there were two we missed and have reinstated now.

The other two remain deleted: one for being uncivil, as we explained; the other for being a potentially libellous post, which, once it was reported to us, we had no choice but to delete.

[AmandinePoulain]

How good of them, cashing in on a health scare

I really don't get it, why not just go and get a (free and licensed) MMR? Why are singles perceived to be safer?

[CoteDAzur]

I'm surprised to hear that MNHQ considers any poster who comes to MN to talk about a single subject a "spammer".

If so, you might like to learn that there is a spammer on Philosophy/Religion board who has been spouting nonsense trying to convince people that the universe is only 6000 years old. He has come to MN two days ago to post on that thread and he has only ever posted on that thread.

I am baffled that MNHQ is fine with someone like him but has lost no time in deleting the posts of a Lancet 12 mum, whose contribution to these threads would be invaluable.

[Beachcomber]

I do wish that Vaccines would come back to the thread. I think there are lots of us who would be very interested and grateful to have a discussion with her. I understand why she probably doesn't want to though .

Vaccines - my heart goes out to you and your children for the way you have been treated by the British government and medical system. Thank you for continuing to speak out.

[CoteDAzur]

I agree. Vaccines, please come back.

[saintlyjimjams]

Hm - I can see why a Lancet mother would feel like that - never mind autism/MMR - it is now incredibly difficult for children with autism & gut problems to receive treatment for those. This is despite a consensus being published in a high impact journal (I can find the link if wanted) of how children with autism & gut problems should be treated. The NHS does not follow this best practice on the whole, particularly when the onset of the gut problems appear to be associated with a vaccination. It is not unusual for parents to travel abroad for treatment - God knows how they do it, we couldn't begin to think about travelling by plane with ds1.

Please note an association between gut problems & autism isn't particularly controversial these days - even if the nature of the trigger(s) remains so. Many of these children are sick (not like my robust & healthy can now eat anything ds1). If the onset of their symptoms coincides with a vaccination then the nature of the development of their condition makes it even harder for them to seek treatment. That politics should obstruct the treatment of sick children in pain is an utter disgrace & it's a shame that mumsnet don't appear to recognise this. Remember these are children who often cannot clearly indicate that they are in pain. Instead they self injure or scream.

This may just be a silly little spat to you MNHQ but I'm not sure I can stay here. Thank you for finally reinstating the majority of vaccines posts. Thank you for taking the time to respond & to explain it all boils down to you being a bit incompetent (not to be rude - any other explanation & I'd be gone already). I'm giving myself 24 hours to think about it & talk to a few people I trust. I have loved mumsnet, it gave ds1 a voice for starters -at least a mumsnetter did - I do think it's a good medium to talk about life with a severely autistic child as well, (something you have expressed a desire for me to do) but ultimately I have to be able look other mothers who are in a similar situation to me in the eye - that is more important to me than 'education' & there's lots about the last 24 hours that leaves me feeling very uncomfortable & I'm not sure I can be associated with it.

[CoteDAzur]

Please stay jimjams

[Beachcomber]

Saintlyjimjams, MN would be a much much poorer place without you.

But I understand and agree with everything you say in your post.

When the chips are down and all that.

[AmandinePoulain]

Thanks wouldbe, I know what puts people off the MMR, I just wonder why the single jab is perceived to be safer, since it contains the same virus and a lot of non vaccers give the measles virus in the gut explanation for autism as a reason for not giving the MMR. I think I'm just a bit sensitive about it all at the moment as the mother of an 8mo living in the middle of an outbreak, I had to put her through the trauma of an extra jab in the hope that it'll give her some protection

[saintlyjimjams]

There may be a middle way. Will talk to DH (straightest person I know) tonight & MNHQ. It may just be that I decline to do something extra they have requested (& I agreed to last week). It's being associated with the site that I find difficult. Will have a think.