Measles outbreak and MMR vaccinations: live webchat with Department of Health director of immunisation Professor David Salisbury, Tuesday 9 April, 2-3pm

[GeraldineMumsnet]

In light of the measles outbreaks in South Wales and higher than average levels of measles in some areas of England, and concerns reflected in MNers' discussions, we've invited Professor David Salisbury, the government's director of immunisation, back to MN to be our webchat guest tomorrow, Tuesday 9 April, at 2pm.

Please post any questions you have about the MMR vaccine for your children, or yourself, to Professor Salisbury.

Thank you.

[DrDavidSalisbury]

@PluserixtheGaul

What investigations do the DH make, and what support do they offer families if MMR goes wrong?

How do we know it is safe if the DH just ignores parents when they tell them about the bad effects? How could epidemiology be sensitive enough to pick up disasters?

How generous is compensation and how easy is it to get?

Why did the DH introduce Pluserix in 1988 and take four years to withdraw it, when they were told by the Canadians it was defective in 1987?

Anybody, a member of the public, parent, recipient, or health care worker can report an adverse event on a Yellow Card (by phone, on line or hard copy) to the Medicines and Health care Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and reports are investigated. There is a Vaccine Damage Payment Sceme that is administered by the Department of Work and Pensions that pays lump sums based on the extent of vaccine damage where the evidence supports the claim that the vaccine has caused the problem.
One of the important tests that are always carried out on studies is to challenge whether they are sufficiently sensitive to detect rare adverse events. Conclusions that exonerate or implicate a vaccine will only be accepted if the studies are sufficiently powerful. For instance, we now have so many different studies, in different populations and done in different ways, that we can be confident that there are not causal links between MMR and autism.
The UK introduced MMR in 1988. As soon as there was clear evidence of the specific association with two brands of vaccine of mumps virus meningitis, and that this did not occur with the third brand, the use of the two particular vaccines was stopped and they have not been used in this country since then.

[silverfrog]

Point taken, geraldine.

Although it might be a little more effective if Dr David answered questions with full facts (which in turn would partly answer other questions asked) instead of woolly, vague answers such as 'some immunity will be lost after a number of years' - which tells us nothing!

[DrDavidSalisbury]

@ChocolateHelps

Do Drs ask those who have confirmed measles, approx 600 at the mo, their vaccination status? Are they all non vac or is there any sense of a particular vaccination failure?

Some of you have asked about whether the cases in South Wales are in immunised or unimmunised people. Most of the cases are in unvaccinated children, some cases are in children who have had one dose and very few are in children who have had two doses. This is exactly what we expect in vaccines that do not give 100% immunity and doesn?t mean that the vaccines didn?t work when they were given, or were ?dodgy? as someone asked. This is why it is so important to have two doses of MMR.

[DrDavidSalisbury]

@Debs75

In light of a new measles outbreak wouldn't it be a sensible idea to sanction single jabs for those for which the MMR is unsuitable?

If so I could get my younger ones(4 and 2) vaccinated

I can't think of any circumstances when it would be appropriate to have measles vaccine but not MMR - so I strongly recommend to you that you get your children vaccinated with MMR.

[CoteDAzur]

What would you say is the point of vaccinating boys of any age and baby girls against rubella?

If you say it is for the greater good of society (herd immunity), would you say it is ethical to inject a healthy baby with an unnecessary vaccine that has a small risk, for someone else's benefit?

Why can't teenage girls be tested against rubella and offered the vaccine at that point if they are not already immune?

[LadyIsabellaWrotham]

DisAstrophe, that "only another 5% protection" is perhaps best looked at as "halving the remaining risk". With vaccine protection, as with contraception efficacy, you're normally better off looking at the failure rate rather than the success.

[saintlyjimjams]

Yes agree with silverfrog. For example I have preferred clarification on the time frames for withdrawal of urabe strain MMR rather than 'as soon as' this broadsheet report suggests it took 2 to 4 years.

[saintlyjimjams]

Oh 'most' - so the newspaper report of 25% being in vaccinated children might be correct then. :none the wiser:

I'll shut up now I promise MNHQ

[silverfrog]

and of course, saintly, there is always the fact that problems with the urabe strain were well documented before the UK even chose to introduce it (why they chose to introduce that strain, given the known issues remains a mystery)

[silverfrog]

yep, saintly, yet another vague, useless answer.

[DrDavidSalisbury]

@Oodsigma

lily missed a bit off my last post ! They were both tested for measles so think yours might have been a GP decision rather than DoH saying don't test.

So DoH my question can be, is testing for measles (and other such diseases) compulsory for GPs is a patient shows signs? And if not then why not?

Many of you have asked about testing for measles and testing for immunity.

It is a statutory requirement that doctors 'notify' suspected cases of measles. When they do so, they are sent a testing kit that only requires a saliva specimen, that is taken with a swab, to be obtained - and even the parent can take the swab. This is tested for rubella as well as measles (and can be done too for mumps confirmation). So, a blood test isn't even needed. However, testing for measles, mumps and rubella immunity to previous disease is trickier. It does require a blood specimen and interpreting the result is not easy. If antibody levels are high, then clearly the person is immune but low levels don't always mean that the person has never been protected. If you don't think you, or your children, have been vaccinated, speak to your GP.

[slightlysoupstained]

Please take the generic antivac bitching elsewhere.

[CoteDAzur]

"Bitching"?

Those are legitimate questions.

[CatherinaJTV]

saintly and silver - I was under the impression the question session was more about the current measles outbreak and what parents could do and less about 30 years of British vaccination policy. Maybe suggest that MNHQ and Dr Salisbury do a separate session on this (which I would find totally informative).

[silverfrog]

yeah, Cote, 'bitching' about the UK knowingly introducing an unsafe vaccine. god, some people, huh?

[judey]

Why am I unable to find reliable data on how many children are damaged by the MMR? I fully appreciate that correlation does not infer cause and effect. However, there are clearly some cases where it is acknowledged that children are damaged by vaccinations (and the families are compensated).
Why can't I choose to have my child vaccinated against measles with a single vaccine if the government are so concerned about this illness? I will not risk the MMR.

[DrDavidSalisbury]

@Puddlelane

Yes I would like to know any link between SIDS and vaccines.

There are plenty of studies that show no link whatsoever between vaccines and SIDS apart from some suggestions that vaccines may protect against SIDS.

[silverfrog]

fair point, Catherina, except Dr David is hardly answering questions about the current outbreak, either, is he?

and the points re: urabe strain arose after he posted about it, tbh.

[saintlyjimjams]

Hm you may have a point catherina - although I think it is relevant given the DoH are concerned with vaccinating as many people as possible. Sort of important to address concerns - wherever they come from. I take your point though.

Although apart from the urabe strain comments the others were all relating to the current outbreak. I see we had the same question regarding details of those affected at the moment, I'm guessing the response didn't really give you what you were seeking either :)

[CatherinaJTV]

true and it is a justified question, not totally OT here (because of the whole public confidence issue) either.

[DrDavidSalisbury]

Sorry not to have been able to answer all of your questions. I have tried to answer questions that relate to the present situation about measles but there have been quite a few questions and comments that had nothing to do with the present!
You can find more information on NHS Choices.

Best wishes to MumsNet until the next time............

David Salisbury

[MyDarlingClementine]

oh dear, so I know babys under 1 can get measles really badly but still dont know how to protect her!

[judey]

In America is is accepted that vaccinations increase the risk of SIDS. This seems a commen sense approach to me, given the age at which infants receive their first vaccinations (peak age for SIDS) and the fact that the can cause a raised temp.