Archaeologists are DNA testing some bones they've found to see if they might be the remains of Richard III. Are there any other members of the Royal Family....

[seeker]

where DNA testing might produce interesting results?

This thread has been an absolutely fascinating read. You lot are so knowledgable!
I've grown up with Richard III history/conspiracy theories courtesy of my mother (avid member of the society and receiver of The Ricardian) and taken on countless visits to Bosworth, Middleham castle, Leicester.

I was in Leicester in 1985 watching the re-enactment society on the anniversary of the battle of Bosworth and have a picture of me and my sister giving the Richard III actor white roses - had no clue what was going on at the time, mind you but mum was dead proud!

We have a house in our town with one of those blue plaques that says Margaret Beaufort once lived there and mum gave it a good sneer. Didn't really know who she was but thanks to this thread I know.

As others have said, Mumsnet can be so diverse!

I teach at a private school so the whole of the first two years is Celts, Romans, Saxons, Vikings, Normans and so on up to the civil war. I love it. Some of the teachers do a lot of social history, typical village life, day in the life of a peasant etc and while I know it was 95% of he population, I much prefer the kings and battles! What 12 year boy old doesn't want to know that Edward II died by having a hot poker up his bum ? Now there's a good example of how values and understanding of diversity have changed!

Yes, childbirth must have been terrifying anyway, let alone at that age!

I don't know that's fair about disability, LaQ. Some people thought like that I'm sure (though broadly, IMO it's a view more prevalent in the High Medieval period and then also later, not so much in the fifteenth century). There's a historian called Chris Baswell who does brilliant work on this stuff, and I heard a paper where he argued from some medieval iconography that there was actually a association of disability with kingliness, oddly enough.

Yes, and never had another child. God only knows the mess her insides were left in!

I guess so, poor her.

Or maybe she didn't want to, and avoided sex. I think you might, after that.

No, it wasn't, I forget the details, but it wasn't to do with curing disease, it genuinely was an idea that being disabled was kingly. There was some link to the Biblical iconography of great leaders and them being imagined to be disabled.

Sorry, but I do hate 'Like most women of the time she was largely a pawn in men's affairs.'

Really? Most women? Like who?

When she was married she was a child. When she was a grown woman she proved to be exceptionally able at propping up the myth of her dynasty as divinely sanctioned. She and Cecily Neville are constantly put up as being unworldly, pious women who just did what their men said, and I really do not believe it's true.

I hope he's published it, LaQ - I'm sorry I can't remember more, but his paper was back in 2009 or so.

Most women back then. You were a mans property. Your father, your husband, your lord...
It was a strong woman who went against convention. And how many of those paid the price? Look at Joan of Arc, and all the spinster midwives hanged for witchcraft...

Yes, but those mainly were Queens and nobles, who had families and supporters and were able to pay for and command others to do what they wanted.

But it's not what she 'was', though, is it? That's reducing her to a thing. It's daft, but I do care about it.

Besides which, there are plenty of women who were not property. Nuns weren't (though you can certainly argue they were trapped in a system), and windows weren't. Lots of widows racketing around having a great time. And nuns didn't just sit closed up in monasteries, either - so much so there was a law passed ('de periculoso') warning them about the dangers of journeying around, and it was regularly broken.

I'm interested in the midwives hanged for witchcraft, though? Witches can be men as well as women, FWIW.

And just look at Lollard women preachers if you want strong women.

Tell us more about the woman Lollard preachers, LRD. I didn't know about them!