Bounty Mutiny campaign: we're off to meet the Minister for Health...

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

Hopefully most of you will know about Mumsnet's Bounty Mutiny campaign, which asks for commercial sales reps to be kept off hospital maternity wards.

We just wanted to let you know that a meeting has been arranged between Justine and Dr Daniel Poulter, Conservative MP and minister for the relevant part of the Department of Health.

Dr Poulter has expressed concern about this issue in the past, saying in a letter to NHS Trusts,

"I am asking you to review your practices for allowing representatives from private companies on maternity wards to assure yourselves that you are maintaining women’s dignity and respect shortly after the birth of a baby when they can be tired and vulnerable."

So we're looking forward to discussing the campaign with him and seeing what he has to say. We'll update you here to let you know how it went.

[PigletJohn]

update

hooray for Jess (crossposted)

[PigletJohn]

On consideration, I withdraw my slur on nurses and midwives

[PigletJohn]

revised

"I can't believe how such an inappropriate practice has been allowed to continue for so long."

because people are making money out of it. Bounty makes a fat profit as it is paid by the marketing depts of the clients, just like door-to-door or telephone cold callers for PPI, double glazing, or electricity.

the hospital trust make a few thou out of it (probably less than they spend on petrol for the chief exec's jag) and look on it as money for nothing

Without wishing to be unkind, I see a pattern that mums with a bad experience tend to say "I was very upset but didn't make a complaint" and the hospital trusts say "we've had no complaints."

If the hospital trusts got a sackful of formal letters of complaint, they would no longer be able to say that mums don't mind, and they would also have the cost and inconvenience of having to look into and reply to the letters. Bureaucracies hate that.

[Jux]

I am astonished that Government are paying Bounty for distributing their forms. bounty should be paying them for the privilege and opportunity of shunting their crap into the NHS. Ultimately that means that we are paying Bounty to do this.

Letters indicating high dudgeon to MPs seem called for.

[Jux]

Here - www.writetothem.com/

[Flibbertyjibbet]

In my area when I had ds1 there was also a (publicly funded) breast feeding support organisation.

A lot of the ladies who did the hospital visits were volunteers, but the managers and organisers were salaried.

When out of hospital I looked on their website for a helpline number. Among all the website pages was one aimed at advertisers, saying that this organisation had the means (by leaflets and packs etc) to put advertising information infront of xthousands of new mothers every year, and advised advertisers of baby/new mum stuff to contact them to discuss rates!

And this organisation had their people on wards too, and collected information from any new mum they could.

Organisation is no longer, due to funding cuts. Which is a shame because the volunteers giving the BF support were fab, but I refused to have anything to do with them after realising they were selling details on. (Which the organiser said was to increase their funding, blah blah).

So, its not just Bounty. Any organisation that collects information from new mothers with a view to selling it on to advertisers, should be banned from wards, and if they sign you up somewhere else like the café or a BF support group, they should be legally obliged to declare what they do with the personal information they collect.

[RedToothBrush]

if they sign you up somewhere else like the café or a BF support group, they should be legally obliged to declare what they do with the personal information they collect.

Actually they already are... they are just flouting the law.

TBH, just getting this message across to women who might realise that they are being approached illegally is a big deal and it means they are more likely to challenge their behaviour.

As it stands if you sign up for anything and hand over your details the company concerned is legally obliged to tell you EXPLICITLY what they will be used for and they are ONLY legally obliged to use those details for that purpose.

[tribpot]

Without wishing to be unkind, I see a pattern that mums with a bad experience tend to say "I was very upset but didn't make a complaint"

This sounds like a call to arms for new dads, PigletJohn. No way in hell will most new mothers have the energy or presence of mind to make a complaint - or in the case of someone like NikNak, who frankly should have had an apology on bended fucking knee from Bounty, just getting through the day must have been a triumph of will.

New dads are less physically traumatised by birth and so perhaps should be encouraged to manage the complaint if their partner wishes to make one.

Chelvis - another shocking experience. I am amazed that any hospital thinks that having strangers coming on to the ward masquerading as clinical staff is a safe practice.

[PigletJohn]

good point. Pass the word out to expectant dads. They are likely to be aggressively protective, first time at least, of their new family.

[BoffinMum]

I think I may have made this point in past threads, but in each case where Bounty do not make it clear to women what they are collecting the data for, or fail to take women off mailing lists, they are breaking the law and can be reported to the Information Commissioner's Office. http://ico.org.uk.

I wonder how securely they keep this patient data, incidentally, and whether they report data breaches to the ICO as they should. In fact, I wonder who their Data Protection Officer is. It occurs to me that if every woman wrote to them asking for a copy of their personal details kept on file, via a Data Protection Act Subject Access Request, Bounty would probably keel over anyway. It would cost each applicant £10 but possibly worth it as a co-ordinated attack, if people felt so inclined.

[BoffinMum]

Here is the email address if you would like to make a Subject Access Request. I have just done so. [email protected]

[BoffinMum]

Sorry, that should have read

[email protected]

[welshnat]

I was actually given the CB form with DSs birth certificate so not sure why all councils can't do this?

I hope you get the result we all want!

[GuineaPigGaiters]

They shouldn't be on wards at all. Totally ridiculous invasion of privacy that wouldn't be allowed anywhere else in a hospital....let alone in the vulnerable and stressful hours following birth. Only a complete ban is acceptable...not this poppycock about them getting a telling off and instructions to behave better in future.

[hunreeeal]

I agree GuineaPig. A complete ban is needed.

[TwitMcAwesome]

A paid sales rep is allowed access to maternity units as and when (it seems).
Where-as I, a trained, DBS checked peer supporter, am not allowed to volunteer to be available to women who might need the help or support.
Interesting priorities....

[isisisis]

"Without wishing to be unkind, I see a pattern that mums with a bad experience tend to say "I was very upset but didn't make a complaint"

My experience of bounty wasn't 'bad'. Due to the Mumsnet campaign I knew I didn't want anything to do with them. When they approached me I gave a polite but firm "no thank you" 3 separate times
As they didn't cause me any distress it never occurred to me to complain. However I've just realised that I should of complained that they where ever there in the first place.
I'm off to email my local trust & would encourage those of us with more routine bounty stories to also complain.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Many good points here, including GuineaPig, Twit, and isis

Perhaps I should complain that I saw a Bounty lady on the post-natal ward following dd's birth in '99 when I didn't request to, and didn't find that helpful. So, as isis says, just the standard stuff.

I do remember reading the dreadful Emma's diary on the ward because I'd just been given it in what felt like a semi-official way. So, I felt I ought too.
Really there was no need for me to be reading about weaning products at that stage. I should complain just for them giving me Emma's diary - on literary merit alone
I also felt slightly bad for deciding not to have a photo of dd, even though
my wiser self knew we could take lots of just as good ones ourselves.

[CyberMuddle]

Very good point isis. If a Bounty rep approaches me (I'm due on Monday) I will complain at her being allowed on the ward at all. I really think we all need to do this to ensure that the message gets across that the whole system is unacceptable, not just elements of their practices.

[Jux]

Oh god!! Emma's Diary it was enough to put you off babies altogether, twee, illiterate, boring. They should give it to women along with the pill.

[FannyPriceless]

I had exactly the experience that PigletJohn describes. I had a terrible experience with a Bounty rep but I did not submit a formal complaint as I was in no position to do so! With a brand new baby and complications I was a vulnerable mess and obviously had some other more pressing priorities at the time.

I verbally complained to the staff at the time, but they gave me a 'there, there, no harm done' response.

Two years later, as a result of the Mumsnet campaign, I wrote a formal letter to the head of the hospital trust describing how I was treated and asking them to cancel the Bounty contract. He sent me a really dismissive letter back saying that they intended to continue with Bounty, and that they had received no complaints about their reps during the period I was referring to!!

What I am saying is, these hospitals cannot use 'we received no complaints' as a defence. Shockingly undignified, invasive stuff is happening to vulnerable people who do not have the capacity to make a complaint! It makes my blood boil that they can so arrogant about this.

[hunreeeal]

Yes, I'm with you there FannyPriceless... this is exactly why so many of us don't complain.

[isisisis]

cybernuddle good luck with the new baby. I've just emailed the CEO of my local trust complaining about bountys access to the wards & have copied my local MP & Mumsnet in. As I said previously, they didn't do anything bad to me but they shouldn't be there in the first place. All of us who object need to complain, not just those with horrid experiences. Then the CEOs can't claim that women don't mind.

[Monkeymummy1]

This is great news. I had a bad experience with these reps too. I had so much going on at the time with a poorly baby. I was in tears, the doctor was discussing with me what care my baby would need, the incubator was being set up beside my bed... and this was the point that the rep stuck her head in and asked if I'd like a photo. Looking back it's laughable - and DH obviously told her to get lost! Really pleased this is being addressed!