New partner holiday abroad

[SDani87]

Hi,

I am just looking for some thoughts on what feels like a really hard situation at the moment.
My daughter’s dad and I split when she was 3 months old. She’s now 3. He has remained a consistent part of her life. He has her a couple of evenings a week from nursery for a few hours, and he has her overnight for one night on Friday or Saturday. We communicate well, we get on fine, we still go out for family days on special occasions, we went abroad together last year etc. I realise I am very lucky to have this. However…
3 days ago, he informed me that he was seeing somebody, and that actually our daughter had already met her and her little girl the previous weekend (and stayed over who knows where) – without my knowledge. I know he isn’t obliged to pre warn me, but I do find it quite disrespectful. He dropped this information on me during a pick up when we couldn’t actually have any kind of conversation about it. I left it alone because I needed some space with it to consider how this might change things, and to think about any boundaries we might need to discuss to make sure that everyone was happy. i.e – I don’t like the idea of my daughter staying somewhere if I don’t even know what part of the Country she is in (I don’t think this new gf is local), let alone with people I have never met and he has only known since January. Tried hard to not make this a major thing in my head, and to trust his judgement.
But then it got harder. 2 days later he messaged me to ask if I would object to him taking our daughter abroad, in June, with the new GF and her daughter. I had only known of her existence for 2 days. I didn’t even know her name. My initial gut instinct was no, for a couple of reasons really, 1 – it’s just too soon. 2 – I don’t think my daughter will be ok away from me for that long, especially when she is going to be with a little girl of the same age who does have her mummy there. I just think it will be confusing for her and I can’t stand the thought of her being upset and me being so far away. I sent a message back just saying I wasn’t comfortable with that, given how new the relationship is, that I don’t know a thing about this woman, but that I didn’t want to cause them any problems and I thought as co parents we should both sit down and have a proper conversation about how all of this is going to work moving forwards. I suggested a few days away in this country might be a good start, and it would be nice to meet the new gf and her daughter at some point (not to judge) but just to get to know these people who are going to be a big part of our daughters life a little better. The response was very much, that’s fine, I understand, BUT. He said he doesn’t see it any different than him asking me to take our daughter abroad on his own, he will still be looking after her etc, its just new GF and daughter will be there too. But I also wouldn’t be comfortable with him taking her for a week alone. 7 days, in a different country, without her Mum (who puts her to bed 6 nights a week, and wakes up with 6 mornings a week) feels like a lot for us both to cope with. On top of this, her Dad is type 1 diabetic, and I do worry about what would happen if he was alone and had any problems (there were many occasions during our relationship when I had to help get him out of a hypo state) – and our daughter just isn’t old enough to understand this. This is a constant concern even when he only has her for a short time, but I obviously can’t stop them spending time together alone on the basis of a medical condition, so it’s just something I have had to try and accept, but a few hours, or 1 night, is very different to a full 7 days in a different country. And I think this is where I am getting confused about if I am being unreasonable by not letting her go on the holiday. Because the fact that somebody else will be there with him is obviously good from the diabetes concerns point of view. But the somebody else being there is somebody who is effectively still a stranger, the relationship is so new, how do they know how they are going to cope for 7 full days together with 2 3 year olds. I hope that makes sense.
So yeah, we are going to sit down and talk but I really don’t think I can compromise any further on this and it would just be nice to hear from others if it sounds unreasonable. I have never and would never use my daughter as a weapon, I don’t want him back, and I do want him to be happy. And ultimately, it is nice for our girl to have more people around her who will come to love her, and a little friend to play with. It just really is still so new. And I feel like everything is being rushed because he wants to do the happy families thing immediately, and it’s a lot. 

[LIZS]

Has he ever had her overnight for a full week? Would you hesitate to take away with a partner?

[Chamomileteaplease]

I agree that it is a huge jump from one night with him to seven. No matter which country!

Can he not see that this is far too much of a leap for a three year old??

As you said, she is just not used to not seeing you for more than one night at a time. I think you are well within your rights to protect your little girl from this. I think your ex is getting carried away and not thinking about your daughter's emotional wellbeing.

[SDani87]

No, he's never had her overnight for more than 2 nights whilst I was in hospital. And yes, I would hesitate to take her away with a new partner after such a short amount of time, and I would also consider how he would feel in that situation. I would also hesitate to take her away abroad on my own at this age because I know how hard it is just going out for the day locally, let alone having manage a 3 year old alone for a whole week in a completely new and different environment. I'm not trying to make one rule for him whilst I would follow another.

[CatsLikeBoxes]

Could he start having her a bit more, gradually, so all of you get used to her being away from you for longer than 1 night, and see how that goes? 2 nights at the weekend every other week etc?

[Chamomileteaplease]

I think this is the kind of thing someone who has only had their child for one night at a time, could imagine is a good idea. Because you are used to her, you know the difficulties and how things work. He is in cloud cuckoo land.

I mean seven nights is crazy, abroad is crazy and going away with the new partner and child is crazy. All three is just awful. I hope you can make him see sense.

[Burntouted]

Inform him that it's premature and you withhold consent.

Overnight trips should gradually build up, waiting until she's around 10 for such trips.

Given her age of 3 and limited life skills, it's risky for her to go on such trips. She might struggle to communicate effectively or handle emergencies.

Demand respect as the other parent, including meeting and sharing contact information with his new girlfriend.

It's concerning that she agreed to be around your daughter without firstly meeting you. It is concerning that she has allowed her own child around your ex so quickly.

Express concern about the lack of familiarity with the girlfriend and the rapid integration of their children.

Highlight your familiarity with your daughter's routine compared to his and emphasize her recent separation from you.

Consider consulting a lawyer to reinforce your non-consent with evidence.

Consider refraining from "family" outings, even without his relationship involvement, to avoid confusion.

Emphasize the importance of strictly co-parenting, limiting interactions to child-related matters, and reassuring your daughter about the status of your relationship.

[BloodyAdultDC]

Bluntly - if you do not consent he could very easily take you to court for permission to take your dd on holiday - and he will likely be given permission. It's a week away with a parent on a 'family' type holiday, not a month in a war zone. My ex refused consent in a very similar situation and I called his bluff, took it to court and the whole thing took less than 10 minutes to get permission

Your argument about the diabetes is irrelevant due to the gf being there in case he has a hypo, and there is plenty of time for him to build up to more overnights by June.

A week away with the non resident parent is a big step but it's not an unreasonable request from her father. You have a lifetime of co-parenting ahead and this is literally a make or break for what you describe as a good working relationship.

[asdf33]

I think you are being a bit unreasonable & preventing your child from bonding with her dad. I think it’s normal that if his new partner is bringing her daughter, that he wants to bring his daughter too. How would you have felt if he was going on holiday with his new partner and her daughter without suggesting that your daughter comes too? You probably would have had a problem with that too. Maybe start with increasing the overnight stays but withholding the child from her father for holidays (until the age of 10, as suggested above) is too long. I’m not sure that it is reasonable to refuse. You would come across as jealous and this whole narrative is assuming that the father is unable to look after his daughter, which is unfair. However, I do agree that it appears to be soon for them to be introducing their children to one another. Although, that isn’t entirely your business either as he is her father.

[BloodyAdultDC]

@Burntouted wait until she's 10 for a week's holiday with her dad? That's utterly ridiculous. Unless op has grave concerns about his ability to care for dd (which she doesn't as dd has contact 3 times a week) or about the gf, she would be laughed out of court if he took it that far.

It works both ways. Op needs the dad's permission to take dd out of the country too remember - a refusal now could turn out to be very messy indeed for op in the future.

It's not about how op feels about dd missing her, the dd has a right to a relationship with her dad which can and should include going on holiday.

[lunar1]

He needs to build up his time with her, one night to seven is massive.

[motherboredd]

I think, regardless of the new girlfriend, 7 nights away is an unreasonable expectation when he only has her one night usually. From everyone's point of view, it would be best to start with a little trip away for two nights and gradually build up.
The new girlfriend thing is not the issue here imo.

[Mindymomo]

I think it’s reasonable for him to want to take DD away, but maybe it would help you decide if you were to meet his new partner and her DC. The last thing you want is to fall out with your ex. I understand your feelings that it’s a new relationship and he’s never had her for more than 2 nights, but you cannot deprive her of a holiday with her father, it could be worse, he could suggest 2 weeks away. I would suggest he has her for a long weekend, maybe 3/4 nights soon before agreeing. As previous people have said, if he took it to Court, he would certainly get this time with her.

[SDani87]

Well it certainly was very interesting to read some of these responses lol. Just to clarify the some of the assumptions made...

I would not and have not ever stopped my daughter from having a relationship with her Dad. I don't think that not agreeing to her not going abroad in 2 months is 'taking away his right' to a relationship with her. As I mentioned in my original post, I have suggested that they take her away in this country for a weekend to begin with. And I do believe that to be a fair compromise that allows our daughter, and them as a 'foursome' to start to work out their dynamics in a shared environment (not just out for a daytrip and an hour or two in the house together here and there - which has only happened for the last TWO weekends) without being hundreds of miles away for 7 nights. Having spoken to a solicitor this morning, I would in fact not be 'laughed out of court', on the basis that it could well be seen as too big of a step in terms of how many nights she currently spends with him. In terms of 'depriving' her of a holiday - I hardly think that her not having a one week holiday at 3 years old is going to impact her life that greatly, but rather having a one week holiday in this situation where she has never been away from me for any length of time, and has quite frankly had next to no time to get her head around 'sharing' her Dad, not just with another adult, but with another little girl - that for me could be more negatively impactful than her not going, and given that she can't even comprehend the option of a holiday is on the table, it's a non thing.

Again, thank you all for your insights and thoughts

[BloodyAdultDC]

Having spoken to a solicitor this morning, I would in fact not be 'laughed out of court'

My ex was laughed at in court. By the judge. Well, perhaps it was more of a resigned sigh as to why he thought that he could prevent me taking my 3yo and 6yo abroad for a week. I was also awarded a residence order for no additional charge. I suggest you tread lightly op as your co-parenting relationship seems stable - if you rock the boat with unreasonable demands you stand to lose more than a few nights in June.

[SDani87]

@BloodyAdultDC

Having spoken to a solicitor this morning, I would in fact not be 'laughed out of court'

My ex was laughed at in court. By the judge. Well, perhaps it was more of a resigned sigh as to why he thought that he could prevent me taking my 3yo and 6yo abroad for a week. I was also awarded a residence order for no additional charge. I suggest you tread lightly op as your co-parenting relationship seems stable - if you rock the boat with unreasonable demands you stand to lose more than a few nights in June.

and at the time were your 3yo and 6yo living with their father for 6 days a week? I feel our situations may be a little different...

I don't think my 'demands' are unreasonable, and there are logical and fair reasons behind my concern about what is in our daughters best interests at THIS point in time.