Ex has applied to CSA ... advice sought....

[yerblurt]

Hi all, would welcome some advice - didn't think I would find myself here, but there you go.

History:

• Me and ex separated March 2003, currently going through the divorce process (I'm the petitioner - grounds of 2 years post-sep with consent), ex has been delaying on the paperwork with financial details (more later). Also getting a Consent Order (i.e. clean financial break) so ex doesn't have any claim on my pension (such as it is lol) or spousal maintenance. We are relatively young (me 35, ex 33), went to Family Mediation post-separation and came to an agreement re. finances. Marriage was short - 4 1/2 years. One child born dec 2002.

• Finances: former matrimonial home sold, joint debts paid off and equity split 60:40. (most of it all pissed up the wall on the subsequent court action when ex decided to apply for sole residency). All finances sorted out and documented in Family Mediation agreeement, plus me and ex signed an agreement of the division of the finances.

• Recently been through the family court system, now have a Shared Residence Order which defines the number of overnight stays daughter (5 years old) lives with me - works out about 152 o/n's per year.

• Have new child with partner.

• Daughter was been in full-time nursery at my employers (I paid as it was deducted from salary directly, me and ex agreed for continuity that daughter would stay in nursery) until leaving to go to school (sept last year).

• ex tried to stiff me for full-time nursery fees for child maintenance (£550 per month!), but had anticipated this and done CSA online calculator calculation - £151 per month. Offered that to ex, via her solicitors, have written agreement (emails) that she agrees to that. CM was payable by standing order and is labelled "Child Maintenance" on my bank details, payed into ex's account.

• I also pay 1/2 daughters school lunch costs (£20 month) - so the ex in fact gets a figure of £171 month.

This morning get a phone call from "Department of Work and Pensions" at 11am - lady on the phone wanted to talk to me about child maintenance, I immediately said I would not communicate with them verbally, all communication was to be in writing but I did confirm my address with what their records stated. I also pointed out that there was a private arrangement in place.

other details:

• I've recently in the last month reduced my working hours by 4 1/2 hours (childcare commitments), so I now work 30.5 hours instead of 35 hours (breaks excluded), so in fact my CSA online calculation is about £130 a month! I've not reduced the standing order to reflect this, but all good will is now out of the window eh.

.... so what to expect dear mumsnet users?

• rather mystified as the ex's actions - it's obviously driven by her getting sight of my wage details during the divorce petition, I'm still waiting for her financial details!!! She obviously thinks she can get more money this way, she is in for a BIG surprise. I will be paying the CSA monies and no more - that includes no lunch money as CM covers everything. The ex has pi$$ed her good will up the wall on this little exercise. As if wasting thousands on the residence application wasn't enough?

so what do I expect - the thwack of the little brown envelope next week?

what will the CSA want, presumably 2 payslips (which they can have - i've got NOTHING to hide now!), they can have a copy of new daughters birth certificate proving her existence and also a copy of the court order which states the contact schedule. It's a very defined court order stating that daughter lives with me for:
week 1: fri, sat, sun o/n (pick up from school fri, return to school mon)
week 2: fri o/n

1/2 of all holidays, and inset days.

I can attach a calendar with the number of o/n's coloured in for the CSA too.

thoughts people and advice?

PS what about them saying they are the dept. work and pension????

[MascaraOHara]

I think GingerBread is an excellent organisation and has a wealth of support for One Parent Families.. (ie. not specifically men or women) there is also a freephone helpline where they can help you get in touch with the right people.

In fact they are advertising on here (I cna't see if they are right now as I get German Ads at work). You cen get a wealth of support/advice/groups etc if you so wish, you can be as active or inactive as you like also.. I would highly recommend this organisation to anybody male or female.

Also you can get free consultations with solicitors who specialise in family law, alhtough I'm sure you know this having already been through mediation.

[skyatnight]

F4J - yuck. Misogynists.

Gingerbread is good. Another site, and one which is still very much geared towards a male and non-resident parent point of view is:

families need fathers

It's so depressing, relationship breakdown, fighting over finances, wasting money (that should be going to the kids) on lawyers because of paranoia and mistrust (sometimes valid).

As a single mother, it makes me feel sick and nervous hearing it from the non-resident father's point of view (especially if phrased with vitriol) but I don't suppose any of these fathers would find half of the stuff we write on this forum (to let off steam) reassuring reading either.

I hate the fact that it almost turns into a gender war issue because the majority of children live with their mothers. It's just about whether you are a good parent or a bad parent, whether you put the children first.

How about setting up dating web sites, a la Sarah Beeny: 'My single nightmare xp/xh/xw' AND 'My single nice-as-can-be xp/xh/xw'. Then we could pair up all the bad ones together so that they can make each other's lives hell and the good ones would get treated well for a change.

If only life were simple.
...

[shelleylou]

Make sure CSA knows you have another child as that will have an effect on their calculation. Your really clued up on the whole situation and youve done the best thing by paing child support by standing order, means your ex cant say you havent been paying so goes in your favour. Although they wont recover anything shes owed before she made contact with them. Best of luck

[agnesnitt]

If you are living in a home with a child, your own or otherwise, 15% of your salary will be ring-fenced (20% if more than one child in the household) and kept out of the CSA calculations.

Other than that I don't have much to add of use

Agnes

[alittleone2]

Message withdrawn

[agnesnitt]

It's unfortunate that just about any discussion can be reduced to a cost though, so we shouldn't be surprised that bringing up a child is no different. Not nice, but entirely to be expected.

Plus, who is to say that the cash that would be directed away from the payments wouldn't end up being spent on the child anyway? Just because the recipient of the support payments isn't getting as much money doesn't necessarily mean that the child will lose out.

Agnes

[AandK]

I think yerblut is great. My ExP never sees his son. He works away all week so when it comes to weekend he can't be bothered with our DS taking up his precious social time.
HOwever he does pay for him and very generously 100 p/w plus extras for school dinners, childcare, clubs, shoes, football kits etc.
This obviously eases his conscience on the contact front.
I wouldn't worry about the csa whatever they calculate she won't get all of it anyway. The csa take their cut for "the secretary of state"! I think it's about 20% so if she has put the claim in herself she's shot herself in the foot.
She sounds greedy to me and just wants extra drinking money for herself on the weekends that dd is staying with you.

[alittleone2]

Message withdrawn

[yerblurt]

alittleone2 said:
As for "all goodwill has been pissed up against the wall".... nice! It's not about your feelings for the ex it's about the child.
Why reduce the childs standard of living for your own reasons??

... I'm afraid that goodwill only works one way with my ex. I've been MORE than accommodating and the ex has decided that she can get more money, probably by talking to some of her bitter mates, some of whom sound remarkably like you actually...

FYI I am not 'reducing the standard of living for my own reasons' ... I provide for my daughter more than adequately when she is living at mine. I provide food, shelter, attention, books, toys, love. That's because I'm a parent and I take my responsibilities bloody serious. I had to fight through the court system against my ex who wanted her daughter to see her dad every other weekend, despite a shared care arrangement (nearly 50:50) that had been in place for 6 months. DD even now says that she wants to stay at dads more 'because that's fair' in her words, unfortunately she doesn't atm.

How about trying to work as co-parents rather than rowing about a couple of pounds?

... yes, that would be fantastic! I'm all for that. I have always been amicable etc, but you know, it takes two to do that, to meet half way, it's a bit difficult when the OH hasn't moved on and plays the victim mentality all the time. Remember, it's the ex who has decided to involve the CSA, not me. If she wants to shoot herself in the foot and lose out on money, that's HER decision. The way I look at it, it means there are more resources I can provide for DD when she's at mine. In fact, I may put the extra £50 a month towards a holiday, seeing as I've not been able to afford or take DD on a holiday for the past 3 years.... yes that would be a much better use of resources come to think of it.

That remark is directed as much at your ex as at you by the way.

I wish you and your child all the best, but i do think it is sad that money is being useed as a tool to hurt each other when at the end of the day it is the child who suffers.

... it is sad. It's sad that one parent can't see the bigger picture. Not for want of trying I might say, but it's my ex's choice to go down this path...

[edam]

Yerblurt, it's not about providing for your daughter when she's living with you. It's about providing for her full stop. She doesn't stop needing food, shelter, clothes etc. etc. etc. when she walks out of your house. Sheesh.

Stop trying to score points with your ex. And stop even thinking 'she does it so I'm justified'. You aren't three.

Speaking as the daughter of divorced parents (twice, in the case of my father), I would advise you to rise above the bitterness and concentrate on doing right by your dd.

[Quattrocento]

Harman

Are these threads better or worse than the threads created by second wives justifying reducing the maintenance as low as it can go?

These situations are awful, really awful.

[lostdad]

Surely if Yerblurt has almost equal care of his daughter with his XP it would be fair if she only gets a small amount of money from him?

Doesn't it work on trust? Why doesn't his ex take his word for it where money is concerned?

Or (to paraphrase Harman) `Why does it so often come down to making sure the b***d ex pays everything I can get out of him?'

Works both ways. Or at least it should.

[Hassled]

Yerblurt - your OP seems to have been triggered by a phone call from the DWP which you are assuming was instigated by your ex - if you have a written agreement to the £171 then that is a rather large assumption. It may have nothing to do with the ex, but rather part of some internal review procedure that the DWP have.

[Surfermum]

Have I got this right? You and your x agreed monthly payments at a certain amount. Despite this she has gone to the CSA. You think their assessment will be less than you are currently paying.

My advice would be to stop trying to work out what she's doing and why. Just accept that for whatever reason she has gone to the CSA and go with that arrangement, because there is nothing you can do about it.

You've been paying what you both agreed as a fair amount before. If the CSA assessment is less, change your payments but offer her the difference.

I'm honestly struggling here to see what the issue is (and I'm one of those dreadful second (well actually first, as dh wasn't married to his x) wives .

[Surfermum]

Oh and dh gets irritated with "it's the department of work and pensions". He always says "no you're not, you're the CSA". I guess they have to as some people run a mile at the mention of supporting their children, but I think alittleone2 is right as well about the confidentiality issue.

I also agree with Lauriefairycakes about it being dealt with by a 3rd party will mean one less thing to argue about.

[silverfrog]

I think what you need to do now is wait a bit and see whether the reason for her going to CSA becomes clear.

You are confident that the CSA calculation will not have you paying more than oyu currently do. I assume you can afford what you currently pay, as it was calculated by you and then offered as a figure to your ex.

I'm not sure what advice it is you are after - you seem to be on the ball as to facts/figures etc.

In oyur situation, I wouldn't reduce the payments to your ex, regardless of what the CSA says. The CSA is calculated as a bare minimum that a partner should contribute, and a one-sixe fits all formula is not, IMO, the best way to do things.

As others have pointed out, this is not about scoring points. If your ex-wife had not gone to the CSA (and thus prompted you to work out what the CSA would have oyu pay) then oyu would not be thinking about reducing payments. Therefore, IMO, you should not do so (and I'm another of those dreadful second wives )