Coparenting arrangement

[newlyseparated]

Hi - I’m keen to hear what coparenting arrangement you have (especially for very small children (2 under 3). How did you come to it? Did you feel forced to give the other parent more because you were scared of court? How do you manage overnights (if at all)? How do you cope with the time away from your child/children?
I’m trying to come up with an arrangement - my ex is incredibly demanding and has been emotionally abusive but I’m terrified of court and ending up with 50/50 which I think would be very bad for my children at this age. I think he is driven by anger and revenge and doesn’t even really want 50/50 he’s just doing it to punish me. He did about 5% of the childcare when we were together. I’ve heard terrible things about courts being really pro fathers even if they’re emotionally abusive

[AHungryCaterpillar]

My ex doesn’t see them at all. I would have loved 50/50 but I understand why people don’t especially with young children.

[newlyseparated]

@AHungryCaterpillar I think sometimes the grass is always greener… if he totally disappeared I might be wishing he wanted to be involved more whereas because he is threatening so much I just want him to back off

[Aimee1987]

DSS was 2 when his parents split. DP had him every Thursday and every other weekend. He stayed overnight 3 nights a wee. However thuthat Thursday had always been DPs day with him as mum worked so made sense it continue wand then split weekends. Still have a similiar set up now alongside half holidays, DSS is at the end of primary school.

If hes a shit dad he may back down once he realises what's involved in looking after 2 young children. Offer to start with 1 day a week ( a full day of childcare for him) and see how he gets on

[newlyseparated]

@Aimee1987 so was it 3 nights one week and 1 night the other week then? Not 3 nights every week? That sounds way too much for me. How did he find it, that’s a lot for a 2 year old? Did you work up to it or just start straight away? Thanks so much

[Goldberg213]

If I was you I’d give him close to 50:50. He will soon back off if he isnt interested. If he is good at it then you will have a free half the week to set yourself up in your new life. You will soon learn to be fine with it.

[Tothepoint99]

2 week rota of every other day, every other weekend.

So MWFSS day then MWSu eve

[chickenpestopanini]

If he's trying to punish you then have you considered playing him at his game and agreeing so you have half the week "free" ? Some abusive men don't agree to much contact because they think that their ex will be constantly dating other men and earning lots and they don't want that to happen 👿

Has he got a woman in his life that he can use for childcare? Eg mum, sister or is he about to get a major wake up call when he has to pay a nursery or childminder for his days and possibly have to rearrange his days so that he can pick up and drop off?

[newlyseparated]

@Tothepoint99 gosh that sounds hard work - you must have a very good relationship to make that work? What about when they go to school?

[Starseeking]

Mine were 4 and 3 when we split. Before we split, my EXDP would regularly threaten that if I left him he would take the DC away, and I'd never see them because I was such a terrible mother to them.

I left him anyway.

In the last 10 months, almost 300 nights, he's had them just over 30 nights, though to anyone who asks, he has them "every other weekend"

This type of man doesn't actually want to have the DC that much, they just want to scare you emotionally. Call his bluff and suggest that he proposes a contact schedule. As others say, you will have time for yourself, and find other things to occupy you when your DC aren't there.

[newlyseparated]

@Starseeking I see yeh I know I could call his bluff I just don’t really want to do that to them putting them through all that disruption and I just want them to have some stability and consistency during all this horrible time. How did you cope with them going away? Everyone keeps saying you get all this time but I don’t want time away - I am totally devoted to them the idea of half the week away is completely awful

[Starseeking]

It sounds like yours is a very new separation; I was in your position about 9 months ago in terms of trying to arrange a regular schedule (I still don't have a proper one!).

What I've always done is take the view that our DC deserve to have a good relationship with both their mother and father separately, despite the fact that their parents relationships didn't work. They love spending time with both of us.

When we first split, I planned my DC activities as if their Dad was completely out of the picture, as I didn't know his schedule. I had asked that my EXDP let me know when he was able to have our DC. Initially, he would email or text a couple of days beforehand, telling me he was going to pick up our DC that weekend, however I refused visits on occasions that it didn't suit us as we already had plans. After a few goes, he got the message, and will now let me know at the start of the month when he can have them that month. If they haven't already got plans, they go, if they have got plans, then they don't go.

My EXDP still has every chance to make a regular schedule, I constantly ask him to, so that he can avoid missing weeks with our DC, he just chooses to do the last minute thing as he cannot commit to anything (another reason I left him).

The first few times my DC went were hard, really hard for me as apart from the odd night at my parents, our DC, now 5 and 4, had never been away from me. My youngest has additional needs, and has issues sleeping so I was worried about our DC.

The thing that helped is that I generally will FaceTime them when they are with their dad, each night before bedtime. We chat about their day, normal things. I never ask if they are missing me, or if they want to come home. Sometimes my DC will ask what I'm doing, and I will say I'm watching a film or whatever, or just say I'm relaxing.

What can make it difficult is that you go from parenting 100% to 0%, and that can be emotionally difficult, particularly if you are a SAHM. I work full-time as well, so that couple of days to decompress is vital, even if it only happens every 2 or 3 or 4 weeks. Some weekends my DC are away, my calendar is jam-packed, other weekends there's nothing in the diary. I would perhaps find some regular hobbies/classes to do. Also, it really does get easier over time.

[newlyseparated]

@Starseeking yes it is all relatively new and things are very hostile at the moment. Obviously I know it is really important for them to have a good relationship with their dad but in my eyes that doesn’t mean having to go back and forth between homes overnight which I think would be very difficult for children this age. I originally suggested we try to make a flexible arrangement but he’s just so hostile it’s impossible and he has been pretty abusive to me so I want to keep it to as minimal an arrangement as will allow them to continue a good relationship while maintaining their security and happiness in a stable home with me. I also want to think ahead and people who do these complex one night here one night there all week I just think how will that work with school etc in the future. Weekends would be my preference for his time but he is currently demanding everything (and the kitchen sink!) so it’s just really hard to manage at the moment. He is also precarious financially and I don’t want instability for them

[Starseeking]

Remember that contact can and will change over time. Anything you agree now isn't set in stone, and doesn't mean it still needs to apply in 2 years or 12 years.

I appreciate that your EX is hostile, however don't rise to his bait. Having been in a relationship which hadn't worked out, he clearly knows which buttons to push.

Also, try not to catastrophise what will happen when he has them. If you all used to live together, even at their young ages, they'll be wondering where he's gone, and if they'll ever see him again. My non-verbal 3 year old used to cry mournfully every night for about 2 months after my split, they'd never done that before, so I could only conclude that it must be down to the split. What genuinely is your fear for when he has them?

When you say he wants everything and the kitchen sink, what had he actually asked for, and is there something in there that you could accommodate. E.g. if he has proposed having them for a whole weekend, you could suggest he has them Friday night to Saturday night the first time, to see how it goes. Sometimes it's in the wording of these things, unless he's just being cantankerous for the sake of it. Only you will be able to judge that, as we on this board don't know him.m like you do.

[TeddyBeans]

DS goes to his father's every other weekend and has a videocall every Wednesday. It's soon to increase to Friday-Sunday every other week but that's as far as it goes. His father works full time and my argument was there's no point in DS being shoved into childcare when there's a parent available and willing to look after him.

DS was 16 months when his father left. Contact has been increased slowly because of his age. It started at a few hours and increased every few months by a couple of hours. Then it moved to two days with him coming back for the night and then filling in the gap last January (2021) when DS was almost 3. When it goes to Friday-Sunday that will be as far as the courts have told us it will go which works for me

[newlyseparated]

@TeddyBeans that sounds like my ideal arrangement to be honest. What was your ex asking for when he took it to Court?

[newlyseparated]

@Starseeking yes I understand these things do change I guess things are just so awful at the moment I was hoping we could get some kind of firm arrangement to allow things to settle for a while. I am just worried about them becoming unsettled and it threatening the security of their attachments by having a very confusing life and inconsistency. He originally said he wanted 2-3 nights a week but when asked he said sat sun mon which is clearly insane to request that every week. Since then he hasn’t actually come up with any clear offer so it’s hard to work out what I can and can’t live with. But there’s no way I’m agreeing to multiple nights every week at this young age I just think that’s too disruptive to them

[TeddyBeans]

[quote newlyseparated]@TeddyBeans that sounds like my ideal arrangement to be honest. What was your ex asking for when he took it to Court?[/quote]
I took it to court to get it ordered so he couldn't demand to change it whenever it suited him - he started to work in the construction industry so his hours change like the wind. He wanted every weekend but the mediator that he arranged told him he'd never get it because I needed to have quality time with DS too.

As we'd started with private agreements with a lot of forced compromising, we'd reached the point where we'd agreed all of the points of contention before I applied for the court order. It wasn't as smooth as just agreeing in front of the judge and getting the order signed off because my ex decided to change the goalposts on the initial court call but in the end it was all awarded as we'd arranged anyway.

[TeddyBeans]

Sorry just to confirm, we were doing private agreements and it was causing me so much stress going through the 'compromising' process every few months. Told him I was going to get whatever we next agreed made into a court order so to make sure he was happy with it. Sent him my proposal, then he got the mediator involved. We agreed a few changes as a result of mediation and then I sent it off to court. This was all done during covid so the hearings were by phone/videolink and he decided he wanted to push for more during the first call which resulted in two more but ended up with our agreed arrangement being upheld so just prolonged the process for no real reason

[newlyseparated]

@TeddyBeans thank you for the detailed response that’s good to know. I guess I would be scared to take it to court myself as it feels a risk that I might end up with a worse arrangement. Was it very expensive going through the court or did you not need a lawyer if things were already agreed pretty much?

[Starseeking]

I thought only non-resident parents petitioning for access could get a court order, I didn't realise resident parents could apply as well.

I may have to do this with my EXDP, as he won't agree to any regular schedule, although he wants to see the DC at his convenience. Would you be able to share how the application process worked please, @TeddyBeans?

[TeddyBeans]

We both represented ourselves so it only cost the £215 (I think) for the court application itself. I was asked by the mediator if I was eligible for legal aid but didn't pursue it because if I got it then my ex would too and I wanted the financial side of it to be a deterrent for him to keep taking it back to court if he ever wanted things to be changed.

Mediation varies by firm/mediator I believe but it wasn't ridiculous. £150-200 I think so it was all sorted for around £400.

@Starseeking I just filled in the online application form. I'll find a link

[TeddyBeans]

apply-to-court-about-child-arrangements.service.justice.gov.uk/

[Starseeking]

Thank you so much @TeddyBeans! I'm going to give my EXDP a couple more months to agree to a proposed schedule (which will also give me time to complete on the house I am buying!), then I'll submit the application.

This forum has been so helpful on child maintenance and contact, it really has been transformative for me, thank you.

[TeddyBeans]

@Starseeking it'll be much better if you can get an agreement together and present it as a consent order (just making your prior agreement legal) rather than going through the whole court order process. If I remember correctly, for a consent order you don't need to go through mediation so it's much more straightforward

[newlyseparated]

@TeddyBeans ah I thought it would be way more than that. I was hoping that the cost would put him off going to court but that’s nothing really. Our mediation is £280 per session (split between us) so court is cheaper!