Housing benefit and tenancy agreements

[tickertyboo]

Hello

I was refused a tenancy agreement with a lettings agent because I was on housing benefit.

Are there any other mothers out there who have had the same problem?

I would be very interested to hear. Many thanks.

[tickertyboo]

It's not about having it all.

It's about being treated fairly and on a level playing field with everyone else in the private rentals market.

I also worked full time with my first child as a single parent but had to rent because I was on 18 k. Thirteen years later I had my second child. Unfortunately he does not see his father. That, is why I work part time and am in receipt of housing benefit.

I'm sorry that you didn't get to see much of your children when they were growing up.

[tickertyboo]

Swingofthings, also, why did it matter to you that their income was made up mainly of tax credits? They had the means to pay you at the time even if tax credits were in addition to their low income.

Why does having a low income seem so morally wrong to you? Does it equate laziness to you? Low incomes are a fact of life for an awful lot of us.

[swingofthings]

Because they lost most of the tax credits when they two eldest left school and suddenly, they couldn't afford the rent.

I'll be totally frank, and feel free to challenge my thinking, but I struggle as a single mum to be able to afford my home. I was left with very little disposable income by the time I had paid all my bills, despite working in a very demanding job, commuting more than an hour to work, so yes, I did feel that it wasn't fair that someone working part-time, enjoying the the freedom of quality time should be able to afford the same benefits of the a nice spacious house in a nice neighborhood.

This was taking it personally, but I gave up a lot of to be able to afford this home, it just didn't seem right that someone working half my hours should enjoy the same benefits.

Saying that you are working so it is different to a single parent who is relying fully on IS and HB.

[MissWimpyDimple]

I understand your frustration, but this is not sex discrimination. There would be no more likelihood of a male claimant being accepted than a female one so there is no discrimination. Direct or indirect.

The fact that more women might be claimants is irrelevant. As many of the figures have shown, men and also claiming and are also being turned down.

HB is notoriously difficult, they will often stop a claim, change a claim etc leaving a tenant suddenly in arrears. This coupled with the fact that they pay in arrears and most rent is paid in advance as per contract, it makes it very difficult.

And yes, if HB is paid directly to the landlord, a landlord can be made to repay it. What this means for letting agents is that as they were the one receiving the rent, THEY will have to repay.

Sorry, I don't blame them.

The fact that there is insufficient social housing is a completely different matter.

[Beebeeeight]

I think it is indirect discrimination.

I wish you luck with your case but I don't think you have much chance.

[tickertyboo]

Misswimpydimple, housing benefit is not notoriously difficult.

I have been in receipt of housing benefit for six years now. I have not encountered problems with housing benefit being paid to me by Birmingham City Council. Nor, have I ever been in rent arrears with my landlady.

Would you please point out to me the law which states that letting agents and landlords have to repay money that is claimed fraudulently by their tenants?

Women are being turned down in greater numbers than men because, as I have stated earlier there are more of us on housing benefit and for a longer period than say your single man, with no dependants.

Thank you for your support Beebeeeight. I know it's highly unlikely that I'll swing it at court. However, politically, it needs to be aired and I'll take the consequences.

[tickertyboo]

And insufficient social housing is not a completely different matter MissWimpyDimple. If there was more social housing I wouldn't be stuck in the private rentals market bringing this claim.

[DustyMaiden]

I had a court order stating I had to return the money.

I know it doesn't mean everyone will do this but it's a risk and 9 years rent is an awful lot of money.

[tickertyboo]

Forgive me DustyMaiden, but I still don't understand why you were being held responsible for your tenant's fraudulent behaviour? Could you point out to me the law on which this was based on? I really would like to know.

[DustyMaiden]

I wasn't held responsible for the fraudulent behaviour, just for returning the money, because it was paid direct to me.

I don't know what the law is . I sought the advice of a solicitor and was told this was correct.

[DustyMaiden]

This is from Rentify, adviser to landlords
Landlords and benefit fraud

This is a major issue which makes landlords wary of letting to tenants on Housing Benefit: local councils have the right to reclaim past payments from landlords if it emerges the tenant claimed them fraudulently, even if the landlord was unaware of the fraud.

[Byefelisha]

DustyMaiden is right.
This is what is on my HB claim form.

[Jaded2004]

I just wanted to add that I agree it is very difficult when claiming hb. I rent privately and have done for years, I moved regularly in the past and before being ill and having benefits I had a poor credit rating. I have a guarantor. This enables me to have hb but most agents are happy with a guarantor in place. I am currently finding it very difficult to keep up with the rent as hb doesn't cover it and exh has decided to stop paying maintenance which is the only way I could afford to top it up, going for what would be council housing here would be almost pointless as I would have to be actually evicted via court order, placed in a b&b (they aren't nice... full of druggies etc) for several months and then placed in any of the pretty awful areas round here with little choice. It's a really difficult situation. The rents around here have rocketed and my rent is actually pretty reasonable compared to what's around at the moment. So rock and hard place really.

[MissWimpyDimple]

Look. I'm a letting agent. (Most hated profession on here but hey- i can take it).

HB can be a pain in the arse. They take ages to make decisions, if something changes, they can adjust the amount paid to reflect overpayments and they have a tendency to just stop paying. Not to mention that they rarely pay enough to cover 100% rent and chasing tenants for top ups is difficult and complicated as the payments don't tally. (Rent taken in 12 advance monthly instalments, HB paid in 13 arrears 4 weekly instalments).

If they find the claim has been made fraudulently, what they do is they then take it back by actually not paying other claimants.

For example, letting agents get one lump remittance for 5 tenants who are claiming. Tenant 3 turns out to be fraudulent. HB stop all those payments as in their eyes the letting agent is one landlord and they are recouping their lost money. Just imagine what that does? Letting agent has to pay out to the other 4 landlords.

As usual, it's the few fraudulent claimers who screw it up for the rest.

Other problem can be that if a landlord needs to get their property back and the tenant wants to get social housing, they are advised to stay put until they are evicted by court order, otherwise they would be deemed as being intentionally homeless. This means costly legal fees and uncertainty for landlords. Ultimately, the landlord is the letting agents client.

For what it's worth- I totally agree about your general frustration etc. But I don't agree about it being sex discrimination.

I am also a private renter, a single mother and a HB claimant by the way!

[CotswoldStrife]

Good to hear from a letting agent, thanks MissWimpy.

[tickertyboo]

Single women with dependants are placed more at a disadvantage by this PCP more than any other group. If there were 435,086 single men with dependants on housing benefit then I would accept this was not a case of indirect sex discrimination.

As soon as I uttered the dreaded words 'housing benefit' to the letting agent at the registration process I was doomed. The letting agent and the landlord could have asked me for a guarantor or taken up a reference from my current landlady of ten years. None of this was done.

There are ways to take on housing benefit claimants which balance the risk.

[pooh2]

Good luck with your claim. I think it's disgraceful and really unfair x

[tickertyboo]

Thank you Pooh2. It's a constant uphill struggle with this but I shall keep going!

[TheBakeryQueen]

I think change is needed too ticketyboo.

I've had a similar experience, it's frustrating and humiliating.

Wishing you lots of luck, please let us know the outcome!

[tickertyboo]

Thank you TheBakeryQueen. I will!

[swingofthings]

What you don't understand is that landlords have a right to rent their property to who they see fit. Being a landlord is running a business. It is no different to banks refusing to do business and offer mortgage to people on very low income. Women are less likely to be able to afford a mortgage on their own because they earn on average less than men, so banks are more likely to make offers to men. That doesn't make them discriminatory. They are entitled to offer their service to whom they want and do so on the basis of risk. Landlords do the same.

[tickertyboo]

I understand that Swingofthings but that is exactly what I am challenging. You might want to google this House of Commons Library briefing paper, number 7008, 8 March 2016 - titled 'Can private landlords refuse to let to housing benefit claimants' by Alex Adcock.

Interesting reading.

[IzzyIsBusy]

Sorry i disagree that it is sex discrimination.
I work with disadvantaged men and a big part of my job is finding them housing.
Social housing is rarely an option as under the age of 35 and single they are given house shares even if they have children eow. If they are over 35 they are only given a 1 bed property and single person HB again even if they have their children eow. As nrp they are not seen as a priority nor are they classed as needing more than 1 bedroom.

They too struggle to find private lets if they are on HB to the point where we have to step in and pay rent and bond plus be guarantors just so they have somewhere to live.

I agree more women than men struggle because more women are resident parents so rely on hb until they can go back to work. However they also have the advantage of appropriate social housing because the children are taken in to consideration as they are rp.

It is not a sex issue both sexes are disadvantaged. It is a social structure issue.

[tickertyboo]

I do not like the way the current 'no DSS' system treats everyone on housing benefit, IzzyIsBusy. I'm glad that you are doing a job which helps vulnerable men to obtain housing.

However, social housing is not an option for all single women with dependant children. I have an asthmatic child living in a damp house, yet I was deemed not to have any housing needs by this sector. As stated before, single women with dependants are the largest group of housing benefit claimants.

[IzzyIsBusy]

They are but that is down to circumstance. That does not make the system sexist.

I agree that any roof over your head is deemed acceptable and that is wrong but it is not because you are a women. Its because the system is shit.

You can fight this without making up a sex discrimination claim.
Shelter are very supportive.
Enviromental health.
And your lical council.