And a special thread for German schools that drive their pupils to suicide attempts [bitter emoticon]

[Nighbynight]

dd got her uebertrittszeungis from the hauptschule earlier this week. Everyone else who was trying got unconditional 5th yr HS -> 6th yr RS - except dd, who got 5th yr RS, IF she passes the 3 day exam in june. It is cat and mouse torture for dd.
the difference between going into the 5th yr and 6th yr of the realschule is ONE BLOODY MARK in ONE BLOODY SUBJECT, but a huge impact on the child.
yesterday, dd cut herself and says she doesnt want to go on living. She is 11 FFS -I am f*g furious.

And to top it all, ex h is piling on the pressure, by putting in a court action to try and get the ds's, and he has made them promise that if the court asks them who they should live with, they must say Daddy. They are pretty distraught as well.

I have f*g had enough.
bayern best school system in germany - ha ha.

[blueshoes]

I'm sorry, nightbynight. It is inconceivable that you or your dd and ds's could come under such crushing pressure. I am not sure what to say except

[ggglimpopo]

nn - I can't find your number - please ring me

[CarGirl]

how are things today?

[taipo]

OMG nighbynight. I've only just seen this. What unbelievably horrible pressure you're all under at the moment. I don't know what to suggest but just want to let you know I'm thinking of you.

[berolina]

Oh, NN! I've only just seen this. Goodness goodness me. I'm so sorry. Is there anything I can do? Sorry for being out of touch lately.

[Nighbynight]

Hello, thank you all for your messages. sorry I havent replied. My brain has stopped working due to stress.
dd is alternating between saying "Ive got the Ubertrittszeugnis" (she hasn't yet!) and bursts of bad behaviour.

I have got an appointment (the dreaded sprechstunde) with ds2's teacher tomorrow, so am fully expecting to pick up some more bad news, about ds2 having to repeat the year again. While I have been concentrating on dd1's uebertritt, he has been slipping back. I must at all costs not lose it and sound off about the crappiness of it all, because I want her to write a statement to the court supporting the dss staying with me!

It is true, that austrian schools are as dictatorial as bavarian ones - someone I know moved from Vienna to the Tirol. The new school said "well, schools in Vienna are worse than ours" so they reduced all his grades by 1 - which meant that he went to the hauptschule instead of the gymnasium! However, the big difference is that he went on to do an Abitur and uni from the HS (there was no realschule). I will come back later to look for more info on Austrian and Swiss schools! Am really not sure what to do at the moment.
we are all a bit shaken round here by the news from Austria.

ggg, Ive got your phone number, Ill call you tomorrow if you are in, I have a day off work.

[Nighbynight]

admylin, that is such a typical story - I do hope the little girl gets her Uebertritt.

Last year in our town, around half of all the children went to the hauptschule for the 5th class.
After the 5th class, about a third of the total will be staying in the HS (the other sixth got the U'tritt at the end of the 5th class). It is a lot of children.

[SSSandy2]

good luck for the meeting today NN, it is one thing after another, isn't it?

I think I would report your dh's pressure on the boys and his death threats (!) and if your lawyer for some reason will not do it, could you not speak to someone from the Jugendamt and get that on record - or are you steering clear of that lot?

[Nighbynight]

hi sandy. what you say makes sense. I have told everyone about the death threats (police, JA, lawyer). Police have written it down, but I get the impression they think he is just sounding off. I am not so sure, because he has got the money to try something. On the other hand, the dss are growing up, and I dont think he will risk alienating his children, much as he would like me to die. What would happen if he feels that the ds's are not his little followers any more when they get older? I dont know.

Sauerkraut, thank you. I would love to hear some more about CH schools - I tried to contact you but you don't accept Contact Another Mumsnetter messages? are you signed up for CAM, otherwise I can make a new email address.

[SSSandy2]

good grief. You'd think his anger would cool over time. Isn't he settled with a new partner? Sorry you're going through this, sounds nightmarish

I doubt very much they would decide to let dh have custody of any of the dc and therefore take them out of Germany. I doubt very much they would split up the dc although theoretically they can. However they do give the father custody sometimes (I know of cases but only where the father is the German partner or the partner resident in Germany).

A friend's sister (South African) was married to a German man. When they divorced, the dc were asked who they wanted to live with. I think they ask the dc as a matter of course. THe father had told them to say with him and that is what they said. The situation was different to yours though in that the father did most of the day-to-day looking after the dc although both dp worked. The dc were asked "who cooks?" - dad "who brings you to bed?" - dad, etc so that all helped sway the judge.

Unfortunately for the mother she has no contact to the dc at all (court decision) although there is no fault of hers that lies behind that decision. She didn't know she would have had to repeal within a certain time and missed the deadline.

So I think on the basis of the very little I know, he will not be given the boys but I think the question of sole parental responsibility has to be dealt with pronto for your own peace of mind.

[Nighbynight]

Thank you sauerkraut. I will send you an email.

I got a bit of positive news from ds2's teacher - she had previously been saying he would have to repeat the year, but now she says he is OK for the 3rd year.

However, we have got the paper for dd's Ubertrittszeugnis, and it recommends her for the hauptschule again. I dont understand why her teacher told her differently in the class - probably trying to "spare" her because everyone else got the ubertritt. She has got very low marks, they are clearly averaged over the year, instead of reflecting her recent performance.
It is going to be very hard to persuade the realschule to even let her take the test. It is very demoralising for dd, because she has worked very hard to improve her marks.

Some kind person has informed the JA that ex h is living at my house , so they have sent a letter asking for the Unterstutzung back from me(maintenance that they pay and then try and get back from him). Im really annoyed about this, as it insults me in 2 ways - that Im dishonest, and stupid enough to have him back after all the violence.

Sandy, I would be in the same position as your friend's sister, if ex h had not brought the chidlren to germany 2 years ago. I am so thankful that it didnt go to court earlier.

[berolina]

Oh NN, it's just one thing after another for you, isn't it?

Write the JA a stiff rebuttal - I would expect the burden of proof is theirs - and ask for Akteneinsicht. They might even tell you who informed them. Email if you want help.

Can you not (parental choice and all that) send her to RS anyway? I know you could in Berlin. (Maybe you should move here ).

[Nighbynight]

bero, seriously?
Here, you have to get the grades.
Last year, it was an ave of 3 I think to get RS, and 2,33 to get Gym.
Every year the stakes get raised, so at the end of the 5th year, you have to get the 2,33 to get to the RS and 2 for the Gym.

The teacher told everyone in public, who had got what school last week, and dd only heard the word RS by her name, so she came home in a haze of delight, thinking she had got the uebertritt.
Next day, she discovered the thing about having to do the probezeit, and just yesterday she got the paper and it clearly says We recommend this pupil for the HS.

I really dont know why the teacher chose to play this cruel trick on us. I feel like the monkey on the stick with the school just yanking at the strings at the moment.

We will try the probezeit, but with that recommendation, it is hard to believe that we will be successful, esp as dd's class teacher is married to the head of one of the other schools in our town. Then we'll be on our bikes probably.

[Nighbynight]

I went to the police about the address thing this morning, but they seemed to think that it could be cleared up by checking with the Rathaus! I found this funny, because ex h is not the type to bother registering there, but of course I solemnly agreed that this would in fact constitute proof that he does not live at our house. Just glad it's apparently that easy!

ex h has disappeared, is not contactable at all, and did not come to see the chidlren on his birthday, which also happened to be fathers day. I refuse to get worked up about it, it is completely typical.

[SSSandy2]

wondering what shit Bekannte you have to thank for that business.

[Nighbynight]

I am wondering that too.
It could be the nasty neighbour who threatened last year that she could make problems for us.

But it is probably just ex h. He was probably asked when he came out of prison "where will you be staying" and gave them my address, and somehow, through the various amts it has filtered back to the JA.

[berolina]

oh I admit to a smile at the police's answer - sometimes the German sticklerism for pieces of paper with official stamps on has its uses

Isn't this HS/RS etc. thing dreadful? Being told in front of all the others too.

[Heathcliffscathy]

nothing to advise but honestly this all sounds horrendous...poor you!

[taipo]

Nighbynight, sorry you're going through all this at the moment.

I think what berolina said about parental choice is true here too. Might be worth checking out.

At least you had some good news about ds2.

[Nighbynight]

thanks! A move to another part of Germany is an interesting possibility, I must admit. I did like NRW a lot.

Was looking at houses in the uk, but living here has spoilt us. We wouldnt be able to afford anything like what we can get here.

[taipo]

I know what you mean. We can afford a much bigger house here in a really attractive area. In London we were lucky to get a very modest terraced house in a not so nice area. Still, that could change if the pound continues to fall and house prices do too.

I don't know much about schools in other parts of Germany. It continues to surprise me that there are some big differences. We are in BW which is pretty traditional in its approach to education but not quite as much as Bavaria I think.

[Nighbynight]

Well, I have just got back from a meeting with the realschule. Was very impressed with teh head, who is the first teacher I have met in germany, who does not automatically think that forcing my chidlren to repeat the year is the best solution to all problems. (Having seen what it has done to ds1, I am keen to avoid repeating the year at all costs for dd.)
He was very encouraging, and thinks that if dd stays in the HS for the 6. kl, she can get teh marks to go straight into the 7. kl of the RS, and that this would be a less stressful solution for her than taking the 3 day test, and repeating the 5th year if she passes it. Apparently, they have had other pupils who have taken a similar route, and he was very keen to present the school experience as a route, which different children will travel in different ways, but all can reach university in the end even if they dont go the standard way.
(This is far more like the english way of thinking than anything I have heard yet in Germany. And very different from the hideous grund/hauptschule.)
I am going to speak to dd. Yesterday she was saying that she couldnt bear another year trying, she was going to stay in the HS for ever and work at Aldi.

Ex h's court case trying to get teh boys unfortunately comes up bang in the middle of the probezeit for the RS, which is a big reason why dd probably wouldnt do herself justice anyway.

I have spent around 4,500 euros on nachhilfe for dd this year, and it has improved her average marks by precisely 1. She is really going to have to pull her finger out and work a bit more next year, because I cant afford that much money for each of the children, and ds1 needs a lot of money spent on him, to buy him a place in a good school next year [cynical emoticon].

[berolina]

NN, would you like me to be dd's mentor/long-distance Nachhilfelehrerin for next year? I could certainly help in German, music, the humanities and possibly science.

That sounds positive at least - thank goodness for sensible RS head.