ernest is not moving to Milan - we're going to Munich!!!!!! In just 3 weeks. Yikes. Help.

[ernest]

So after months of not looking forward to Milan, at the 11th hour dh work change of plan - we're going to Munich. I am really pleased about change of plan, but a bit shocked it's so sudden - dh starting there 1st March.

so - having baby in Munich - good? Hospitals good?

We are considering the Munich International school to the south of the city - anyone know if any good/ or how it compares with the Bavarian IS to the North? Or are state school really really fab and seriously worth considering?

Thinking of Solln/Pullach/something else beginning with P all in south . these any good or any other recommended areas for families on pub. transport network?

Anything else I should know?

I've heard the accent is mad - is this similar at all to Swiss German? or just a mad accent rather than weird dialect?

[ernest]

thanks a lot gracelo.

TQO, how exciting, someone in almost identical position. we'll def have to keep in touch, you can be my guinea pig, as you're learning all the stuff and I can benefit from that lol.

The health care sounds then similar to in Switzerland. I'm also seeing each time my own Frauenarzt, and get scan each time (tho not internal, thankfully!). I was loathe to give this up, but from what you've all reassuringly said, I won't have to. tqo, does the Starnbergspital (to they call them Spital in Bavaria, or is that just a Swiss thing? Krankenhaus sounds really awful....?) have a special care baby unit do you know?

Where abouts are you living tqo - in Starnberg itself? Do you know the areas we've mentioned? Pullach, Solln, Planegg? Like I say, these are just chosen from looking at map. I know nothing.

How old is your ds? Is he in a kg or anything? How have you all settled in? Do you speak German? Mix with many Germans/foreigners?

Can't believe I've got so much to sort out.

Dss had a fair bit of time off school, visiting Milan, now I have to go back on Monday and say, actually, change of plan, and they'll need more time off school. And get them re-registered for the German (DaZ) lessons, which they were de-registered from as they were heading for Italy.

[thequietone]

Hi Ernest,
Starnberg was recommended to me because they do have a special care baby unit. I decided to go for that option rather than Furstenfeldbruck hospital, which is closer to home, but not as nice and no baby unit. I live 20 mins away from Starnberg in a little town called Eichenau. I did originally want to live in Solln as it has a great reputation, but we decided to move just a little further out to get the countryside at our door. I too am having the C Section for the same reason. DS's birth was a bit traumatic and an epesiotemy (sp?)tore right through to a 3rd degree. Have never been the same since and Frauenarztin and hospital concur that c section is safer.
DS is in Kindergarten two raods away from the house. It's a normal German-speaking one as we wanted him to learn the language. It's his 4th week there and after a few understandable tears (we'd been together 24/7 for 6 months), he happily skips off with a "Tschuss, Mama, bis bald." We've settled in really well, although I must admit I was getting quite down before Christmas. Missed my own family, couldn't fly because it was too late, baby-wise. Since then my German lessons have really clicked into place and I'm gaining confidence to have conversations.
Our friend base is all DH's work friends or a steady stream of family and friends from the UK. Everyone here is so unbelievably friendly and helpful. They've exploded their own myth with the exception of supermarket cashiers!

What a nightmare for you, for this to happen so late in the plans. Ours was the opposite - we knew we were moving out October 2006 (!), but because of paperwork, contracts etc. we didn't get out here until August 2007, by which time I was 12 weeks pregnant.

I wish you all the very best and I'll be keeping a close eye on your posts to see if I can help.

[ernest]

just looked up eichenau on s-bahn map. we're staying just 1 stop away in Puchheim next weeekend. So you can recommend Eichenau? How long does it take to get to Marienplatz from there? Are the trains very regular? Trying to get a balance of nice area/not too lang a commute for dh. How old is your ds? For us the language is a bit of a funny issue, cos ds1 & 2 anyway speak (Swiss) German and seem OK in High German. DS 3 understands a lot and speaks a lot but not as much of course, so I was considering Int. school for ds1 & 2 & German KG for ds 3. Does your ds just do half days? Interested to know how it works, as it seems to be a bit different than here in CH; were automatically go for 2 years to KG round the corner for 5 mornings and 2 pm per week. Fertig. Whereas I've read you need to apply for several, there are some full days, you choose hours, you have to pay etc etc. Too much for my already-bursting-with-panic-and-pregnancy-hormones brain to cope with.

I've heard Starnberg is lovely. You've already sold that hospital to me, lol. Just gotta get our house sold now or I'll be having 'it' in CH.

[thequietone]

I've only done the S-bahn once in the evening. It took about 25 minutes to get into the centre of town. I'm pretty sure the trains are regular, every 20 minutes or so. Eichenau is lovely (in comparison to Bristol). We live at the southern end of town, which is on the edge of the countryside. DS loves it as there really is a forest at the end of the road! Got 3 medium sized supermarkets, two nice delis, too many bakeries to count, my Frauenarztin is just off the high street too, so 15 minutes walk from the house. Very handy...5 Kindergartens, huge sports centre. I like it because it's such a change from the UK. It's very clean, close to the city but not too close. Plenty of fresh air for DS. No crime, no problems.
DS is three this month (2 days after Baby no.2 is born).
Kindergarten was a bit complicated. DS HAS to go every day - they recommended this so that he can build relationships easier. He does 8-3 on Mon, Weds and Fri, and 8-12 on Tues and Thurs. The only rules were he HAS to come every day, and for a minimum of 8-12 noon, so yes, you can choose the hours beyond the first 4 hours. The pay scale reflects this as you pay for the number of hours you use a month. Suits me as I then have two half days to spend time with him. Because we arrived in August, we missed the school year KG allocation. I was desperate for a place by Christmas, esp. since DH works abroad a lot and DS was missing company of other children. I ended up meeting the Mayor to plead for a place in the nearest KG. To complicate things, it's shutting down his class in September so he's only there until then. 1st Feb was the town's deadline for applications for KG places in 2008/2009 so I had to apply for a place at second nearest (and nicest) KG. There's a small chance that his current place might change their mind about the class. I hope so.
The application process is quite smart really. Visited the KGs and there's just one form to fill. You number the KGs in order of your preference, and if the 1st one can't take him, the form passes to the next, and so forth.
Hope this helps. I've got to waddle out to the post office to send off yet more forms for the German authorities! I jsut bombard them back with birth and marriage certificate and hope that's what they want!

[ernest]

when he does 8-3 does he come home for lunch or is he there that whole time. SO we'll also miss the kg placement application deadline. Till whta age do they do KG and when do they start school? I'm getting confused. I think for us 25 minutes into city a bit much, I think dh hoping for max 20, ideally 15 munites. sounds perfect were your are.

[thequietone]

He doesn't come home for lunch. He has a snack mid-morning which I make before we leave, then lunch and, technically, a sleep afterwards. You may have missed the deadline for submission of forms but I know for a fact that they don't make a decision on number of free places until May, so there's probably still time to visit and explain your situation. KG goes up to school age, which is six here.
Just checked train times for you and it's 26 minutes to Marienplatz, perhaps a little too long. Puccheim to Marienplatz is 23 minutes. Maybe you need to look at suburbs, such as Solln.

[ernest]

anyone know how good German schools are (likely to be ) with ADHD? Not had great experience so far with 1 particular teacher of 1 of dss which is the main reason I'm erring towards int school (plus work paying of course)

tqo, maybe I could CAT you? Good luck with your c-section!

[Baffy]

(just to but in!)

Ernest, so glad you've found someone on here who can help with such great advice

I can't believe how calm you are! Very impressed!

Let us know how you get on.

And don't be arranging any meet-ups without letting us know! (btw we're having a lunch time meet up in London on Sunday 16th March - I don't suppose there is any chance you'll be in London then, but just in case you are, I'm letting you know we'd love to see you!)

[finknottle]

How old are your boys, ernest?

[ernest]

baffy, you're so sweet to be checking up on me I'd love to meet up. Was hoping for one last UK visit before I 'pop', but drive to Uk prob. now too much and if I fly I'm stuck in a tiny village with no transport. So looks like I'm not going to be able to come

fn, ds1 is 8, ds2 is 7, and ds3 is 4. ds2 has just, like 2 weeks ago been diagnosed with ADHD, and I'm pretty sure ds1 is affected too, will try to get him 'seen to' when we get back off holiday. Had loads of problems with 1 of ds1 teachers, and with hindsight, pretty sure it's ADHD related. Perversly, it's ds1 problems which led me to get ds2 checked out, as ds2 is worse, and I was envisaging nightmare time at school, but in fact we've been blessed with 2 absolutely fantastic teachers for ds2, but it's really caused me a lot of mental pain the probs we've had with ds1's teachers, so it's making me more nervous about going down the German state school route, as I've heard Swiss & German schools similar. That's not the only reason of course, many factors involved, but it's a big one. I feel anxious now every single day I have to send ds1 there, tho with ds2 I feel the opposite and feel he really is cared for in every sense by his teachers.

[thequietone]

Ernest, can you believe I've not got a credit card to pay the £5.00 CAT annual cost. Is there anyway I can send you my email address? You on Facebook? I could do something there?
I'm afraid I've not got any advice or experience with primary age schools or ADHD, but if I do find anything out I'll let you know.

[finknottle]

Kg goes from 3-6
Primary 6-10 (Y1-Y4)
Secondary 10 on. This is where the German system does your head in as at the age of 10 (or 9 dep on d.o.b.) in the 1st half of their fourth year at primary school (so after 3.5 yrs school) it is decided whither your child will takes A levels & attend university.
That's Gymnasium - grammar school.
Bavaria may be slightly different but here:
Or Realschule = vocational school till 16
or Hauptschule = dole queue fodder (I'm paraphrasing der Spiegel)

There is a different streamed school here which allows for children who fall between the 3 types and is generally much better with SENs, called Gesamtschule but don't know how they are in Bavaria.

Parents tie themselves and their children at times trying to get into Gymnasium, you need an Empfehlung from the school. Here it's not binding but may well be in Bavaria. I know from NN that the Bav way of life partic wrt schools is even more rigid than here.

In your shoes and facing ? more expat moves and esp if money's not an issue, I'd go for the International School.

We haven't even talked about ADHD. Schooling aside there are many wonderful things about living in Germany. Transport, health care, letting the children run around more easily, go to places on their own from an earlier age (not the same stranger danger and NO school run, they walk, bike, bus, tram) - but there is not the same perception of SEN.

Ds1 has a mild SEN. He's now happy at his new school but I was told countless times in hushed shocked voices by other parents (thinking I maybe didn't know as a foreigner) that I couldn't poss send my son to that school with those children. Many have SENs, ADHD etc. The attitude is that 4 yrs of primary "mit solchen Kindern" was enough, that's what the head told me when I said I thought the school sounded great and why was it so looked down upon...

I'm telling ya, it's barking.
And I know some of us go on about the school system here and it upsets some Germans but honestly, if your not on the sunny side of the system, it's crap.
Berolina has a nephew with ADHD (I think) and he's facing the secondary choice this year and facing Hauptschule/Sonderschule. Children with SENs and SNs are not integrated on the whole. No SENCO's, no IEP's, no teaching assistants...

There is more to school and more to learning than Noten. Sadly that's not the case here.

[Anna8888]

Ernest - I've read through this thread - I have no specific experience of Germany, but quite of lot of expatriate schooling.

Given all you've written, I'd go for the International School any day if you are lucky enough to have the costs met by your DH's work .

[ernest]

On the face of it the International school is a no-brainer. But - and here's the catch, the move (orig. Milan don't forget) was only supposed to be 2 years, cos then ds1 is due to start 2ndary school, and I insisted on return to UK and staying in 1 place for continuity, stability etc. Don't think it's fair to be moving him round as a teen. And I didn't want to be in Milan, so the 2 year cut off was ideal. And dh's work have only agreed to pay for 2 years, so it all seemed perfect....

But now it's Munich not Milan, (I know I'm jumping the gun, as I've never even visited!) but I would def. consider being there long term, but no way could we afford to pay Int Schoool fees for 2 (or 4, gulp) kids long term....

If only I had that crystal ball......

How practical would it be, d'you think, for them to attend Int. School, then switch to Gymnasium? WOuld that be possible at that stage to swap between the 2 systems?

As move to UK is possible, Int Sch seems most logical. As boy(s) has/have ADHD, Int Sch seems more logical. BUT yikes, if we stay, the fees after 2 years....

TBH if we'd originally been moving from CH to DE it would never have come into the Q, we would have gone straight for German school. It's cos we've had these last few months arranging Int Sch in Milan, that suddenly, given dx, being educated in british and int environment seems much more attractive

[ernest]

tqo, I mean was it OK for me to CAT you? Anyway, I just tried, and it said your settings are fixed not to receive any messages from other mumsnetters, so if it is OK for me to CAT you, could you unblock me please

[Anna8888]

OK, I understand.

Possible scenarios are:

• next two years at Munich IS, subsequent seven (or more) years at German state school
• next two years at Munich IS, subsequent seven (or more) years at English state (?) school
• next two years at Munich IS, subsequent seven (or more) years in as yet unknown city/country

Personally, if my child(ren) get the opportunity to do the International Baccalaureate, I would jump at the chance. So I would plan their education on the basis that I shall send them to a school that does IB, not A-levels or another school leaving certificate, because they will have much more choice of university that way.

So - in your position today, I'd take the MIS solution and start beavering away at working out what to do next in the IB system .

My sister's children are at the International School of Amsterdam, btw, and before that at the International School of Madrid, both IB schools. And my cousin's daughter has just done her IB exams in Australia (and got 43/45 [proud emoticon]).

[finknottle]

You need to put out a call for NN - as I said the People's Republic of Bavaria (as dh calls it) are a law unto themselves and things may be different.
It's a question of finding the best school for your boys - Gymnasium isn't the be-all-and-end-all. Ds1 as I said is so much happier and academically he's thriving.
If you know the general areas you're heading for you could try asking on that expat forum or there's a German one, eltern.de or similar. That may show what's on offer.
1st 2 years of primary were great for both my boys btw, usually are imo. Only when you head towards secondary that they can get tough. Don't want to scare you off

I have no idea about the Swiss system so maybe they're paragons of educational virtue here by comparison

[ernest]

Anna ,that's almost it, I guess I'd rule out 3rd senario, it's either UK state school or Germany, no way will I go to another bleedin country, so
Possible scenarios are:

• next two years at Munich IS, subsequent seven (or more) years at German state school
• next 9 years or so at Munich IS and bankrupt ourselves
• next two years at Munich IS, subsequent seven (or more) years at English state (?) school

I think you're right tho, MIS seems to make more sense. pretty sure at this stage I'll put ds3 in German KG as his German is still quite basic and I want him to learn it well.

[Anna8888]

Never say never - expat lives can throw up all kinds of unknowns .

Sounds like a good plan, you need all the children to have a similar level of language proficiency/bilingualism so German KG will sort that for your DS3.

Maybe try to find the parents' association at the MIS and quiz them about how it works out swapping between IB and German school?

My sister is forever anxious that her children are behind England (but she is benchmarking the most academic prep schools...). And of course her children have learned many things that children in England won't have learned, like how to speak Spanish and Dutch (as well as English and French, their home languages) and how to live in different countries.

[SSSandy2]

Try to get them in here maybe - European school (see fee structure, it's much more affordable):
www.esmunich.de/english/pdf/schoolfees.pdf

Might be difficult though, since you'd be category III I assume.

I think, Ernest, take the two years IS the company is paying for and use the time to get your bearings. You need to be there really to know where you want to live if you do settle in Munich long-term and where the good schools are. I think the IS will be better for sociability in the beginning which will make it nicer for the kids and they'll probably find the English side of schooling an interesting change, so that might all work to your advantage.

You'll need to ask around to find out what secondary schools you're going to aim for and then figure out what the best way in is. Don't worry, everyone will be totally obsessed by it so you will definitely hear all about it.

Good luck and, my, don't things move fast in the Ernest household?! Well done you getting everything back on track and CONGRATS re the baby!! That's fantastic news, so happy for you.

[thequietone]

Morning Ernest,
Try now. I've changed my MN settings. Sorry about that - not used CAT before...

[louloulouloulou]

i'm also moving to munich in march as my husband starts working the tuesday after easter (strange date to start) i have a 7 month old son.
also looking for somewhere to live, i used to live in munich a few years ago, great place.
i know a couple who sent there kids to the international school in starnburg, they had a great time, seemed like a holiday camp

[MrsBigD]

Hi Ernest,

I'm originally from Munich and I can highly recommend it . South is good ;)

Healthcare (even on Krankenkasse i.e. NHS equivalent) is miles better than in UK, even though a lot of Germans are now starting to moan because not everything is free anymore... much easier to get to see specialist, paediatricians etc.

You'll love it!

If I'd ever go back to Germany (not likely though as migrating to Australia in May) that's where I would move back to

[Kindersurpise]

Just noticed this thread. Wow, Ernest, you are brave!

Munich is a lovely place, we are there often as DH's HQ is near Munich and I sometimes go with him when he has to go there.

You will need to buy a dirdl though.

Can't advise you on schools, as we are in NRW so completely different system.

How is the house hunting going?