Rudd/Howard debate: After being a life-long Lefty, I actually <whispers> found Howard more convincing

[suzywong]

is it because I 'm in a new country I can disassociate myself with my parents' beliefs and my lefty leanings in a British Framework? Or does Australia as a relatively New Nation actually need a consistent period of governance, ie Liberals for 11 years +, in order to carve a niche?

And all Howard's talk about having the ear of Bush regarding Kyoto and global emmissions, is it actually better to have Bush inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in, so to speak.

discuss

Personally I think Howard takes a lot of economic credit that is not due to him. He's had as much to do with Australia's prosperity over the past decade as the House of Saud has had to do with Saudi Arabia's. Strictly speaking, Australia's current economic conditions owe more to Deng Xiaoping than they do to John Howard.

right
that I did not know

I really do want to become more informed but tbh I find the Australian political media so turgid and sludgy as to be impenetrable and there is NO political discourse whatsoever on the streets of the Suburbs.

Any more opinions?

I'm afraid I didn't watch the debate . Having left the UK as Brown was taking over from Blair I was totally fed up with the politics of personality on the front page of the paper every day, and I have kind of ignored it here as I assume I can't vote until I get citizenship. My natural instinct would always be to vote labour as well (and boy, do I miss my Guardian) but I too need to get myself a bit more informed - not that I know enough people here to be invited to the kind of dinner parties where politics is discussed

but is politics discussed?

Not as far as I can tell and I have sought out a handful of people who would be Guardian Reader types if they were back in the UK. Is it because there is very very little comedic political satire around? And so much harping on about the farmers?

No wonder Murdoch quit the country.

I thought that Rudd was much more credible and gave a better performance last night. I think that Howard is arrogant and a bit of a fuddy duddy and I don't think that there is anyone who wants Costello to become the PM. Having said that I live in a safe liberal seat so my vote which will be for the Greens anyway won't count. Have you checked out the Vote a matic on News.com.au? Also the Womens Electoral Lobby website generally gives a good breakdown of where each party stands on issues of particular interest to Women. Generally Australian's don't discuss politics much with one another unless they know they are on safe ground. Pretty much like religion I guess ...

thanks for the link, i'll check it out

it makes one realise how valuable British Political Satire is/was. Spitting Image and Steve Bell really did contribute to political awareness amongst the suburban housewives like myself.

I've been doing my best to shut out the election but as I have only been back in the country since May I should really pay attention.
Is it shallow to vote for Howard because I don't want a PM called Kevin??
I had better start doing my research!!
Will have to do a postal vote as election is only a couple of days before baby is due....

"turgid and sludgy" hits the nail on the head.

I hate that the Sydney Morning Herald gives over regular column space to Tony Abbott. If I wanted to know what an arch-Catholic nutcase thought about my body and my right to do with it as I please, I'd ask the Pope.

SPRAY@9 dragons

quote of the week, surely

Oh, man, I have a HUGE problem with politicians who bring their personal religious values into their jobs. Possibly the thing I hate most about Howard, beyond his smugness, his willingness to pander to the most racist elements of society (while maintaining the highest immigration rate Australia has ever seen ), his claiming superior economic management when it's all just the resources boom is his association with the Exclusive Brethren (bizarre cult who, among other things, refuse to heed Family Court rulings about children maintaining contact with both divorced parents, and who forbid their members to vote).

In a country where voting is compulsory, taking donations from and granting meetings to a group that expressly makes members do something illegal is exactly the same as taking donations from the Australian Association of Crystal Methamphetamine Producers.

I think the reason Australian politics is such a turgid sludge is that it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. That said, I will be pleased if Malcolm Turnbull loses his seat over the Gunns pulp mill in Tasmania.

I believe Dr Karl (lovely intelligent science radio broadcaster) is running on a climate change alliance ticket. I'd love to see him get in.

i think whilst you can focus on the house of reps - don't forget that the senate can hold the balance of power and it is their ability to block supply that led to Gough being booted. We tend to dismiss the Senate and yet they can hold the power of checking the house of reps.

Not sure who I will vote - just something about Rudd that concerns me.

Given that labour also gave us the recession we had to have in the 1980's where interest rates were almost at 20% for home loans etc - something to consider - also think welfare is better under a coalition than it was for a while under labour.

Very disappointed in Peter Garrett too - but he is not my local member so no ideas there.

But shall check back to see what you have learnt Ms Wong.

our electorate fairly safe for liberal.

Think Peter Beattie may have damaged it for some here in Qld.

I've found it fascinating how politics or current events just never seem to feature in the conversation here. I have wondered whether the size of the country is such that it is impossible to try and keep abreast of all that is happening nationally so that lots of people just deal with stuff on their own doorstep.. very immmediate doorstep and don't get too bothered about the rest.
I think political satire is sorely missing here too.

I think you are right robinpud - people are more concerned with state issues than national at times. We have three very different levels of government.

Our local is about to go up the swanee with super councils - amalgamating councils to create huge areas with supercouncils - has not gone down well here with Qlders and the fact that the labour premier refused to hold a referendum about it was not taking well.

I tend to focus on state and local government as most of the day to day concerns we have are under those umbrellas.

I think too what can concern a property owner in the middle of nowhere is often totally different to what is of concern to an urban yuppy.

major slight hijack but Eidsvold I need your help please over here