UWCSEA Singapore

[Karramaboo]

Hi all,

We are seriously contemplating a move to Singapore as dh has been offered a really great package with his current company, running things out of Singapore. DH had a look around and really liked UWCSEA for ds, who is currently year 6.

Our dilemma is that ds is quite academic and sitting the 11+ for selective Indie schools (Latymer Upper, KCS) in London. He also has some mild SEN (joint hyper mobility) so we are bearing this in mind when looking for next schools for him. Ds is very into art and drama and will be applying for scholarships in both. Dh's job opportunity is totally out of the blue but as I said it's a great package in terms of accommodation/school fees/maid/bills all paid. On the other hand ds has been preparing for the 11+ for a long time and if he gets in then based purely on academics, the London day schools get pretty great results. The other thing we like is the level and understanding of SEN in the London schools we're looking at as well as the standard of art and drama.

BUT... the money and the lifestyle benefits are really tempting. I have arthritis and the climate would be great for me and for ds it would mean access to a swimming pool in our accommodation which would be great as daily swimming would really help with his joint pain.

Sorry for the incredibly rambling post - getting to the point now! So my question is - does anyone know what art and drama are like at UWCSEA? Also anyone with experience of their SEN provision? Very confused and could do with some advice!

Thanks so much in advance!

[cannotseeanend]

Just avoid one of the primary heads, a dragon and expect some staff departures.......

[Kim1313]

Dear Karramaboo, you will love Singapore. And the good news is that there are no bad schools.
Fyi I am a Tanglin Trust School parent. My son used to go to the French School (Lycee Francais de Singapour) but he is now in Tanglin.

To summarize: the consensus is that the 3 best schools in Singapore are the 3 non-for-profit schools:

• Singapore American School (SAS) following a US curriculum.
  
• UWCSEA Dover (and UWCSEA East slightly behind because newer) following an IB curriculum.
  
• Tanglin trust School (TTS) following a UK curriculum till year 11 then 2 paths: A-levels or IB.
  

Dulwich College Singapore might be a great school but it is a new school so it does not have any exams results yet. And it is a for-profit school.

Comparing exam results: apples to apples:
TTS has better iGSCE and IB results than UWCSEA (both campus).
Fyi I believe comparing iGCSE results is more meaningful than comparing IB results because all students take this exams and it excludes the 'scholars' UWCSEA might bring (or not) to push up IB levels.Anyway fwiw TTS has the best results at iGSCE and IB.

UWCSEA is more international than TTS but TTS is still very international: many of the British kids passport holders are from mixed families or are kids who grew up abroad.
But it is true that TTS kids native language at home is overwhelmingly English. Which is less the case at UWCSEA. My son's mother-tongue is French and this is one of the reason I chose TTS over UWCSEA. I felt the level of English is higher (disclaimer: my son is in the Junior School. The difference might fade in the senior school).

Other reason we chose TTS over UWCSEA is that we felt it was more academics; not as much as the French system where our son used to be . But more than UWCSEA. It does not mean it is better. But we really liked it was still linked to a national curriculum.

Regarding extra curriculum activities (sports, musics, drama,...): all the schools are fantastic. UWCSEA campus might be a bit more impressive than TTS (though TTS is getting better and better) but we do prefer TTS location: closer to city center and located in One North (Singapore own silicon valley/bio technologies cluster).

Regarding waiting lists: in Senior schools, waiting lists are not very long anymore due to new schools opening (including Dulwich) and a temporary slowdown in oil/gas industries (many expats left singapore last couple of years). So do check before assuming it will be hard to get into TTS.

Both UWCSEA and TTS are fantastic schools. Dulwich might end up being great as well and our friends with kids going there are very happy. But as a TTS parents, I cannot tell you strongly enough how happy we are about TTS.

[Laptopwieldingharpy]

I think that the last few exchanges illustrate what I was saying above about making sure the school is a right fit for YOU.
If you are going to fault a school for not being «british» enough then choose another one.
Agree with Hopjhin somehow that the IB middle years «program» is a sham and only as good as the teacher delivering it. But that is true of all IB schools and not exclusive to UWC.
You can still deliver a fair bit of content at home while the IB delivers a method.
True though about tutoring. But that is largely for kids whose parents are not backing them at home. Those who never read a book or pick up a pen and paper to edit their work and rely on computer delivered Tutorials.

OP, make sure you understand that side of IB education, coming from a competitive UK style school can certainly be a shock. Kids have much more scope to make their own decisions about « their learning» (snort...that is the terminology) and that involves a fair amount of maturity, discipline and parental involvement.

[mbabanemummy]

It's not the only UWC with a lower school programme.

And they don't "bring in ringers", it's how the whole UWC works... it's academically competitive across the whole world. I think you've misunderstood the school!

[Hopjhin]

I moved my kids last year. Very happy. Academic standards same as UK private schools. Great teachers from lots of UK public schools. Good community feel and kids are happy. Well structured and lots of sport. We are very happy with the school.

[Karramaboo]

Hello all just to say thank you for your feedback! And of course I will take into account all views presented here as well as having a good look around the schools myself. Would be interested to hear why Hopjhin likes the sound of DC - do you know people there? Thanks again!

[tinypop4]

I get the feeling you're not a big fan of teachers Hopjhin. Most are not in a conspiracy to stop children from learning, believe it or not.
I have no vested interest in the school, I've worked in several all across the world. There are many, many children at this school that do extremely well.
I'm not here to argue with you, so I'll not be wasting my time listing textbooks. I'm just presenting another side to the story. There will always be people with different opinions on any school.

[Hopjhin]

I am afraid as a teacher you would have to defend your own. As a parent, I can tell you there were many teachers who didn't teach. I had one of them and I complained to the school.

Unfortunately, teacher complaints got you nowhere as you always backed each other up.

As far as textbooks, please list the ones that were used in the JS and MS. I am not talking about the HS. I never saw any and I had three children in the school for seven years spanning the Junior School, Middle School and High School.

[tinypop4]

I taught at this school till March this year.
I never saw a teacher who didn't teach.
Many subjects have text books.
Yes the children use laptops- this is to support their learning not replace it.
The educational standard is high, although the school is on the big side.

[Hopjhin]

In Middle School they are given laptops and learn stuff on them. It's very difficult to gauge what they actually do. But I can tell you the kids are two years behind the UK academically. So they have to scramble in upper years when they are expected to do UK exams like the GCSEs.

As you can tell I am not a huge fan. I have been there, done that and left.

[Flurries]

No textbooks?

How can they ever learn anything?

[Hopjhin]

It's pretty much common knowledge. The school even did a survey and they discovered 90% of the HS is tutored. Also they bring in ringers for the IB. They have 100 super bright scholars that come at the beginning of sixth form that are cherry picked to go to the school. Finally,the UWCSEA is the only UWC that has a junior years programme. Basically they just made it up. It's very monetsorri, no textbooks, very teacher dependent and little structure. So of course, by the by the time you get to high school and do the GCSE you are super under prepared and end up getting tutored.

[Karramaboo]

Wisedad thanks again for all that info - very useful indeed. Hopjhin could you tell me a bit more about your experience with UWC? It's obviously difficult for us as we are getting conflicting feedback but did you see evidence of heavy tutoring when your dc/dcs were there? And can I ask why you think DC is a better choice? As I said, we do like DC UK but as I understand DC Singapore is a franchise so not necessarily at the same level. Any feedback very gratefully received.

[Hopjhin]

Because the children are heavily tutored the results are heavily skewed

[Flurries]

Teachers don't teach

The DP scores are well above the world average.

[Hopjhin]

Dulwich College Singapore is a great school. My kids were at UWC and the academic level is very poor. Especially compared to UK private school education. Everyone is heavily tutored as teachers don't teach.

If you are looking for a school that compares to a London day school I would say your bets option is DCSG

[Karramaboo]

Laptop and Flurries thanks both for the advice. Great to hear from an (ex) TTS parent and it does sound like UWC is a great choice for us. I won't be able to go out and see it until early Feb so we will get ds to sit 11+ here anyway as a back up, but it does sound like a great option!

[Laptopwieldingharpy]

Sorry for all the typos!

[Laptopwieldingharpy]

Disclaimer: I am an ex TTS parent ( primary). Our eldest transitioned very easily to competitive schools in Hong Kong at the end of primary. Mandarin was weak though.
I still maintain what I said about the demographics.
In the long run we would have transferred to USCSEA like everyone else.

Uwc like TTS offer the IB diploma. They loosely follow the guidelines of the IB PYP but there no MYP really.
They both put a strong emphasis on the "learner profile" of the IB and all that jargon but actually deliver substance compared to other full IB schools. Expectations are high ish ( advanced math at uwc).
There is also a strong ethos of community service and being a world. Itizen etc....same is true for all top schools in Asia. I personally think a lot of is just show.
We are know at our 5th "top" Asian school and we know some administrators and teachers from previous postings. They rotate and most are highly experienced teachers who have learned to sing to the same tune.
It is a good idea to stick to a school for a full
Block i.e. upper primary or middle school/ HS to avoid gaps and/répétitions in science and "social studies" in particular.
I would say that a key element in your choice is where you think your child will be happy, where YOU fit as a family and what school you need to slit in next.

[Flurries]

UWCSEA is not a full IB school.

I wouldn't hesitate OP. UWCSEA is one of the best international schools in the world, and although it might not have the same focus or experience that you would get in a London school, it has so many other benefits. Your DS will get so much out of the experience :-)

[WiseDad]

Ahha. Dyspraxia. We know that one, if you see what I mean. Swimming is good or that. You can find a swimming tutor who will visit your condo which helps enormously. My 6 year old daughter learned to swim from one to one lessons when she was four and I benefited enormously as well.

Dulwich College Spingapore won't have any results yet as the senior school has only just opened. When I was last there it was a building site. I can't say much more as my kids don't go to school in Singapore but my son's French tutor in Singapore says UWC academic standard is much higher than DCS.

The trouble is parents with kids in Tanglin or DCS won't criticise their school as it makes their choice look bad so you need to consider this in feedback you get.

As for property hunting 10k is a good budget to start with with paid AC bills is a dream! Get the Property Guru app which will allow you to have a look and see what you can find. A three bed serviced apartment in the Shangri-la residence was offered to us for 10k a couple of years ago which is very nice. A bus to DC goes from near there and a couple of kids from DC were staying there when we were there. The commute into the CBD sucks though. You could get something near Orchard for that money...or even something near City Hall which is a really short commute to the CBD.

Remember that when it comes to walking anywhere in Singapore the heat and the humidity are sapping. A few hundred metres seems fine as an idea but isn't so fine when the heat and humidity are high. Or if someone has set fire to half of Indonesia (pm2.5 counts can be sky high - there is an app for that as well - myENV)

The new dengue vaccine is worthwhile getting to reduce risks. I am the mosquito magnet in our family and don't want to take the risks so we have tons of DEET spray and vaccinations. I think it is something like S$130 a shot with two shots needed six months apart.

Are you doing a sighting visit before deciding? Given they are going to pay accommodation, and you have a rare family expat offer, I would think the firm should be happy to find that. We went in March and my wife started in May so not much of a delay there so be prepared to decide quickly if you do go.

[Laptopwieldingharpy]

Tanglin is definitely less diverse if not predominantly "white" and British. Don't get me wrong it is an inclusive school but it can feel a bit more cliquey.

The mindset at UWCSEA is different as they have a higher proportion of long term residents and that includes a bigger proportion of Asian kids with US passport. Affluent, educated, high achieving professional parents with their eyes turned towards the US and top tier US universities.
They just have more cliques

[biscuitmillionaire]

The big decision is surely whether you go with IB curriculum at UWC or other school, or British curriculum at Tanglin or Dulwich etc. They are quite different. And obviously that has implications if you think DS might go back to school in the UK in the future.

[Karramaboo]

Wisedad thanks for that incredibly detailed post. It's very helpful indeed. Ds is actually dyspraxic as well as having JHS, but I mentioned the joint stuff because that's what causes the pain and what easy access to a pool will help massively with! I've been to Singapore but not with a view to moving there - it was about 5 years ago and yes it was nice, but I wasn't looking at it as a place to live so I really need to take a proper look. Housing budget is 10k a month (rent) and bills paid on top so pretty decent I think as there's just the three of us. Would love to hear your thoughts on Tanglin and Dulwich - I was told that Tanglin was a bit dare I say it 'stuffier' than UWC - dh certainly got that impression from friends but we haven't seen it. We've seen Dulwich UK (ds was/is planning to apply for 11+) and really like the feel of it, but not sure how Dulwich Singapore compares, they don't put the results on their website, just a general results list for Dulwich International which covers the Chinese/Korean schools too. Would love to hear your thoughts though.

Tinypop no worries, as I said, any feedback gratefully received!

[tinypop4]

Oh sorry op I had missed your message but see it now. I'll reply later today!