Moving to France (Toulouse) for 6 months - would you do it?

[Wimpling]

As part of my job in the UK, I have the chance to spend 6 months in France next year - would be from Jan-Jul 2018. I’d be coming with my 3 DC, all primary aged, and it would be a chance for me to improve my French, and DC to learn it for the first time. Looking at a couple of bilingual schools in Toulouse (all private, with mixed reports, but the priority would be for the DC to learn French). DH would stay at home, as his work wouldn’t transfer.

My French is good and I know the area a bit (lived there a long time ago!). My question to those of you who’ve made a move abroad for a short time is: is it worth it for the cultural and linguistic gain, or is it too much practical and emotional upheaval, esp. for the DC, for 6 months?

[Mistigri]

Wimpling I'd just keep doing what you are doing and ensuring maximum French language exposure

Best for language acquisition is complete immersion of course, and you are right that the presence of other English speaking kids may hold things up, though it depends on the child. But the most important thing is that your children have a positive experience.

My experience is that language acquisition in immersion situations varies hugely between children, depending on underlying facilities for language, and personality (all other things being equal more outgoing and socially confident kids will become fluent much quicker).

[AnnieAnoniMouse]

Oh I’m SO glad you went! Life is too bloody short to miss out on fabulous opportunities!

My friend & her DD came to the UK (from Italy) when her DD was 7, my friend spoke very, very little english (and not much Italian either as she was try there for work from her home country and they work in their native language) and her DD knew 3 words. She went straight into an english primary and although there were one or two kids who spoke Italian, it really was immersion english. When I met them, 6 months after they arrived here, her DD was fluent in english, without a trace of an accent and had won a competition in short story writing (independent so they didn’t know her background).

So, there’s no telling how well your DC will do with speaking French. There are lots of clubs in the UK for French speaking children, that are fun, not boring, if you want your DC to maintain it once you get back to the uk (if you come back 🤣).

Toulouse city centre I find to be an odd place, sometimes it makes me feel a bit ‘on edge’ and other times it’s lovely, especially Sunday afternoons.

I hope you have a fabulous time. Keep posting, please!

[Wimpling]

They’re in one of the little ‘bilingual’ private schools. The teachers are speaking to them and working mainly in French, but there are a couple of other English-speaking, and bilingual English-French kids. It’s helping them settle in quickly, but it’ll hold them back in their language learning. They are going to a local football club, though, so I’m hoping that’ll motivate them to try and speak to team-mates!

Do you have any advice, based on the many English families you must have seen passing through the Toulouse area?

[Mistigri]

That's a shame, but it will still be a great experience.

Are your kids in French speaking schools?

[Wimpling]

Mistigri, sadly we will probably be returning to the UK. Unless I give up my job (and find a new one!) I’ll need to be back there by Sept.

As a long-time lurker on the Westminsterenders threads I remember your posts from the earlier threads. Thanks for them - I always enjoyed hearing your thoughts!

[Mistigri]

Congratulations on your move :)

We are near Toulouse, it's a great city. Hope you enjoy your time here.

Will you definitely go back to the UK or are you leaving that open?

[feelslikearockandahardplace]

Hi Wimpling I only just read your thread but wanted wish you luck for the remainder of your stay. It sounds like it's been a good start. Enjoy your time there!

[Wimpling]

Hello! In case anyone who posted is still around, I thought I’d give an update. (Was too scared to post after we’d decided to come in case anyone came on to tell me that it would be a disaster!).
I came out for a visit in October and saw 3 schools, chose one, and found a little house for us. We arrived a week ago, and the DC have been in school since Monday. We’ll be here for 8 months in the end.

So far it’s gone amazingly smoothly (I think we’ve hit a sweet spot where info is easily available online, but before Brexit complicates everything). The 3 DSs came out of school on the first day saying that it was ‘good’, and have been happy to go each day. They’ve joined the local football club and played there once and survived the lack of language understanding there. They are absolutely knackered by everything being new, but I told them last night about this thread and asked them what advice they would give someone else. They said: ‘Do it!’

I’m sure we’ll have tricky bits going forward, but I am amazed by how well they’ve taken to it so far (they’re not all the most adaptable DC in the world!), and I think ultimately they’ll end up more confident as a result. Thanks to everyone who posted before - it was so helpful to hear about different experiences, and gave me a lot to think about.

[Lolipop123]

I have lived in different countries for different periods of time (some years and others just a couple of months) and I am not sure uprooting your kids for just 6 short months will be worth it. And I speak as a French person and a language teacher who has worked with many kids of different ages and different levels.

I also moved school quite a lot as a kid and it always took a while for me to settle in my new school. Considering that you'll be moving mid-year and that your kid don't speak or understand the language, things may get even more difficult for them. They'll need to adjust to a new home and not having their father around, living in a place where everything is in another language and where English will be of little help (let's be honest, most French people suck at English and aren't always willing to make the effort to try and understand and/or help out), not having their friends to play with, probably having to give up on the clubs/activities they were doing outside of school. That is A LOT to ask them to give up on for the possibility of maybe understanding French.

If you were staying for a year or more I probably would tell you to "go for it" but for 6 months, I think it would be too much fuss for very little reward. Have you talked with your kids about your project ? What do they feel about it? Do they actually have a genuine interest in learning French or is it more you who want them to learn the language? From experience you can't force a child of primary school age to learn a language if they really don't want to so they need to be fully on board if you want them to have the results you are expecting.

Good luck though as living abroad is always an interesting experience! :)

[Booboostwo]

I live an hour from Toulouse. In my experience schools that style themselves as bilingual do a lot less English teaching than anyone might reasonably expect. The only truly bilingual school in the area is the international school, which has considerable fees - something you may want to take into account in your financial planning.

Be weary of the little French educational peculiarities as well....many schools are closed on a Wednesday, many children are collected for lunch every day, etc.

In terms of learning a language a small village school might be more welcoming, although primaries have a full on curriculum and the teacher may be too busy with everyone else to help your kids understand what is going on in the classroom in French. This may become quite a disheartening experience for your DCs. If you were staying for a couple of years it would make sense to take extra French lessons or even get an orthophoniste involved, but for six months it may not Ben worth the trouble.

[theundecided]

I think in general this is a good idea, but is there any way of making this into a 9-12 month placement? Only because we lived abroad (outside of Europe) for a year once, and it took almost 6 months for everyone to stop feeling homesick and a bit disorientated and start to enjoy it. I'd worry only that your DC wouldn't get the best out of it because in that short time they'd barely have time to stop missing their friends.
If you do go ahead I would echo everyone that says use the public school system - they will learn French so quickly .

[BritInUS1]

I wouldn't do it for 6 months, it takes a long time to settle anywhere x

[Wimpling]

Thanks to those who've asked - I've not decided yet, no. First thing is to check if their UK school will hold their places (we go back to school very soon, so I'll know about that quickly). Then in a month or so I'm going to do some French school visits, and based on that I'll decide.

I'd like the DC to learn French but I'd also just like them to have the experience of living abroad, and seeing the world differently. To the PP above, I don't think they'd be too unsettled going back - they'd be going back at the start of a new school year , and watching the dynamics of their groups, I'm not sure the other kids would think about the fact that they'd not been there for part of the year before. They're very in the moment.

[CotswoldStrife]

Have you decided yet, OP?

6 months seems a very short time to move the children for - they will miss their friends and their school, surely? I would worry that they will be unsettled in France when they get there, and then unsettled when they return home after the 6 months.

I get the impression that you'd like them to learn French but I don't think this is the best way for them to do that. If they could speak it well before they went then it may consolidate it for them. Otherwise it seems far too much upheaval for them for such a short length of time.

[BonApp]

Have you decided OP?

[Ancienchateau]

I moved to France for 6 months with 3 DC (ended up staying 5 years). My advice is that if you stick them in a French school (private or public) in the countryside where there are no english speakers they will be embraced as minor celebrities, pick up french depending on their ability and generally have a happy time. If they go to a "bilingual" french school it will be full-time french with probably 4 hours of English a week so not much different. My experience of these types of schools is less positive particularly in how non-french speakers are received.

My DCs schools here kept their places for them which in the end they didn't need. Good luck. It's only 6 months. If you are travelling light then it should be fun.

[Hotdognoketchup]

You have got to make your own mind up based on what you see when you get there. It took a lot less time for the kids to become fluent than us. If you are sure that you can be settled in three weeks then this gives you a lot of time to support your children. If you try it and it doesn't work I am assuming the kids to return to live with father. I didn't mean to be discouraging as I have really enjoyed our times abroad as a family.

While I don't know much about South America I would say that although the paper chase is bad in Mexico the level of support from individuals was very high and made a huge difference to the liveability of the country. Whether you are going to be welcomed into the community will make a real difference to your experience.

[Wimpling]

It sounds as if the expectations that you go with play a big part. Hotdog’s experience of it taking 2 years to become fluent is in line with what I’ve heard elsewhere, so as I said upthread, I’m expecting that after 6 months my DC would understand a lot but not be able to say very much. I’m definitely not expecting fluency in 6 months, but I see learning a language as a whole life task, which ebbs and flows depending on the exposure to it, and I’d hope that 6 month’s exposure at an early age would stand them in good stead in the future, at least in terms of comprehension. I’d also hope that living somewhere different, even if it’s daunting at the start, would help them to build confidence as long as ultimately it’s a good experience!

I’ve been reading a few old threads from people thinking of moving. Most are looking at longer, possibly permanent moves and I’ve been trying to think about what I’d think reading about someone proposing to move for just 6 months. Part of me thinks it’s too short for the upheaval to outweigh the benefits, but then I know that it’s the only opportunity we’ll have - and that the DC will be going back soon to their familiar setting, so maybe there isn’t so much of a risk?

My worst fear? That would be having DC who are isolated and unhappy, without any support available to change that! I know the area and the system well enough to be settled in 3-4 weeks, so I guess a lot will depend on the school setting. I’m planning to go over in a few weeks to visit a few schools which have said that they have spaces, so that’ll be a decider. I wish I had someone wise to come with me - I’m not very good at the gut feel bit!

Thanks for all of your thoughts (so far?) - overall they’ve been more discouraging that I expected (even those who’ve said they don’t mean to put me off!), but giving clear reasons which is really helpful!

[LinoleumBlownapart]

South America is TOTALLY different to France/Spain or Italy. depends on your experience, all countries are different and even within countries there is massive varity. The level of beauracracy in South America makes Italy look like Germany by comparison, give me Italy, Spain or France any day of the week, but nothing is impossible. One persons experiences will not be anothers, even in the same school.

Think about what's the worst thing that could happen, if you couldn't face that or overcome it, don't go but if the worst that could happen doesn't put you off, then I'd say go for it.

[Hotdognoketchup]

I wouldn't do this but solely because of the six months thing. We moved to Mexico and put the DC in a mostly Spanish speaking school and I reckon it took six months for us all to start to find our feet. We used tutors after school and the school were very supportive. After two years when we left, the DC had good Spanish but keeping it up in the UK is hard and takes extra study for the DC.

[danTDM]

Yes, I have a big problem with how I am perceived. Until they meet DD who is more Spanish than can be! I live near Valencia. So not in the sticks.
I have a suspicion that it might be a teensy bit racist here though!
They absolutely hate new English speaking children who hold up the class. It's a pain for all. (Or French/ Moroccan etc)
They are jealous, rather have private lessons than playdate with DD (not that she would speak English with anyone Spanish anyway)

Just warning the OP of all of it. It's not straightforward or easy. Not at all.

Too late for next year here, already.

[BonApp]

dan our experience is that the other parents want their kids to be friends with DD so that they can improve/learn English. But we live in very international area and a country where being bi-lingual or tri-lingual is the norm so I think generally there is a decent tolerance of non-native speakers.

Saying that, in some other local schools nearby there are large numbers of non-French speakers and there it is seen as a "problem" or a negative thing for sure. But I think that's more to do with perceptions of "immigrants" vs "expats" IYSWIM.

[danTDM]

Please don't misunderstand. My DD was born here and has a Spanish father and is totally bilingual.

Other children who come to the school and I have made friends with the English parents, are not. Totally both teachers and other parents resent the fact that foreign DC's hold up the class/ don't understand.
Because they bloody do! The DC's do not intergrate AT ALL IME. (Been here 11 years)

This is my experience.

South America is TOTALLY different to France/Spain or Italy.

[LinoleumBlownapart]

I think it depends how you approach it. It's not all roses. My youngest actually really struggled as young children are less understanding. They just thought he was stupid and he got into a few scraps (he was a fighter unfortunately).The older ones were welcomed. But we went with the intention for the children to learn the language and approached it positively. They didn't hold anyone up as far as I'm aware as there was no special help or anyone on hand to assist, they were just expected to pass. But things are a bit different in south america, life is hard is practically the life moto, not always a bad thing. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and all that.

[danTDM]

x post, slow typer!
I don't mean to put you off either but don't underestimate how hard it is and that your children will not suddenly be bilingual in 6 months. Not at all.