how do you start comparing educational standards between UK and USA?

[DeliveredByKiki]

DH and I have the ongoing conversation about how long we'll stay in the US, when/whether we'll move back to the UK. For many emotional/sentimental/family/familiarity reasons I want the DC to be secondary educated in the UK (they're currently 7 and 4), but we think we might stay in the US to get citizenship to allow freedom of movement and work opportunities for us all (yes very aware of the potential tax implications of this)

DH is not adverse to moving home but at the moment says his only reason would be that I wanted to go and he doesn't see the benefit - he says he isn't dismissing my more emotional reasons for wanting to return and does understand even if he doesn't them himself, so we should also be trying to compare educational advantages, I suppose as that's more a black and white comparison?

But who would you start? I feel league tables only tell you half the story, where do you go to compare the way education is taught, comparison of things like world history, whether a broader but more superficial knowledge base pre university is better or worse....I'm also aware that should the DC want to attend a British University they have to be resident in the UK for 3 years prior to application otherwise they are treated (and charged) as foreign students

Anyone already done this kind of research or has an opinion they'd be willing to share? We're not in a great rush.

FYI we live (and would likely stay) in Los Angeles, we'd be moving back to the SE of England, most likely Brighton or at least vaguely commutable to London

[Flipflop6]

Anyone have experience or opinion on moving from a US school to the UK to start A Levels (age 16)?!? So the child would not have done GCSE 's as only part way through High School??

My daughter would probably be looking to do English,Art Humanities type A levels... ( unlikely to do straight academic Maths/Sciences).

Currently she is only 12 but we are considering a move to San Jose ... 2 or 4 years duration .. So return to start Year 10 or Year 12.

Background : we did a stint in CA (Santa Barbara that time) 2009-12 but came home due to very sick parents. They have now both passed away... So we are considering returning to CA for another 2-4 year stint. I also have a 7 yo and a 10 yo... But they young enough to swap back before exam age!!

Is this move a bad idea education wise? I feel the kids gained a lot with the previous experience (then only K and G1)

[MyFriendsCallMeOh]

IB is becoming more popular where I am in the USA (Texas) and we have several "state" high schools and many private schools offering it. Most colleges will allow IB students to skip straight into their second year of study as its so advanced compared to the high school cert. Those who have saved for college will be able to save a years tuition, or even add in a 12 month masters for the same cost.

I imagine as IB gains in popularity here and in the uk, learning will become more standardized down the years.

[ChipsandGuac]

I have friends that went back to the UK when their DS was 15. The school thought he was a math and english genius, he was so far ahead of the UK. However, because of the way the science system works, he failed in physics as he'd never really studied it before.

If you're not staying in the US, I struggle to understand why you would take citizenship for your children but I guess that's not what you're asking!

[SquinkiesRule]

My two oldest went through school K-12 in California. Small rural area and lots of amazing caring teachers. Both did well and oldest went to US Uni. Next one moved to UK after graduation and the local college accepted his High school diploma and SAT scores as A levels for a course he did. Youngest started out in CA went to K-3 and then transferred into a small village school in UK. Now year 6UK and getting ready for high school.
I'm not sure if it's because we were there so long and I got used to it, but I prefer the US schools. Here they are nice and usually friendly but I don't feel involved. Luckily Dd is doing great.
It's 5 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other with schools.

[SenecaFalls]

It was a long time ago for me too, prettybird. And I was doing history, for which I imagine there is quite a bit of variation.

[prettybird]

Probably Seneca - but it was sooooo long ago I can't remember either the schools they were from or what subjects they were doing

I think French was one - I have a vague recollection of some Americans in class with me. I think Maths was another.

[SenecaFalls]

prettybird That was not my experience at Edinburgh. But I suppose it also depends on the US university, the individual student, and the particular course.

[prettybird]

I do remember American exchange students at St Andrews being most peeved that although they'd completed 1 or 2 years at their US Uni, they were usually put into St Andrews 1st Year

......but a few months in, they'd acknowledge it had been the right level

[readingrainbow]

*high-ish not high-rise.

[readingrainbow]

No doubt there are well educated Americans. It just seems to take a lot longer to get there.

I took both the SATS and ACTS ; high-rise scores but still felt on the back foot for the first year of my A-Levels. It's quite likely my highschool wasn't the best, but I learned how to game the system with multiple choice tests as a student. Writing decent essays, on a regular basis, wasn't how I was taught to regurgitate information.

[FrancisdeSales]

This is why in America you take SATs or aptitude tests when applying to University. High School standards vary widely. Some are extremely challenging and others are not. I actually prefer that my kids have to take math and science up until the age of 18 together with language arts as I value a good general education. Both systems have their strengths. I like that in the US you are not expected to know you want to be a doctor at 15 and chose your subjects accordingly. It's much easier to study a subject to depth at 16-18 if you only choose 3 or 4. I value a British education but I know plenty of extremely well educated Americans too.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

A high school diploma is not worth the paper it is written on in UK. DD1 has been in the US system all through secondary and is doing the IB.

I am not sure where GinAndJag's comments re science are coming from - age 15, DD1 was doing chemistry from an A level text book (but this is in an American international school here, not in the US). We also found that DD2, who transferred back to the UK system aged 12, was way, way ahead in maths.

[readingrainbow]

I grew up in the American school system and came to England at 18 to do A-levels. I was considered "gifted" in my US schools; streamed from an early age to do more challenging classes etc. In my last year of highschool I took AP calculus, for example. I was shocked at the expectations and requirements of my A-levels courses when I moved here. It was a steep learning curve for me. It turns out a highschool diploma us seen as the equivalent of two or three D's at GCSE (this info is from my brother who had his quals professionally transferred). In my experience, the US education system is much broader and less vigorous at a much older age. I was considering going to university in the States before moving to England with family, and the course I wanted (veterinarian) was seven years long. The first two years were general studies and couldn't be skipped over.

I think there are pros and cons to both systems, but I can't help thinking that a tighter focus of studies at a slightly younger age would lead to less faffing about in university. The "undeclared major" phenomenon is real, and what a waste of money.

[DeliveredByKiki]

Yeah in fairness we never plan this far ahead, we barely plan 6 months ahead and all major life decisions have taken place somewhat on a whim during the course of our relationship!

[KickAssAngel]

Let's not forget that this is many years into the future. Although having some rough idea of a plan isn't a bad thing, I've found that as soon as I think I know what I'm doing, shit happens and life takes a change.

[GinandJag]

I went through the Scottish system and thought it was brilliant back in the 1980s, but it seems to be going through a hard time at the moment.

[DeliveredByKiki]

Pedantry totally acceptable prettybird and I wish so badly we could go the Scottish system as that seems like my favourite option particularly secondary education - but a big reason for going home is proximity to family friends, the vast majority of which are in the south east

[GinandJag]

As a Science teacher in the UK and a former parent in the US, I would vote for the British system.

Science teaching in the US, IMO, is very much a collation of factoids, rather than developing skills or critical thinking.

[SenecaFalls]

prettybird makes a good point. Not particularly relevant to the OP's situation but movement from the Scottish system to US ones (and vice versa) is easier because of the similarities between the two, four-year university among them. In fact, much of US education has antecedents in Scottish education, including the term "high school."

[prettybird]

Being a wee bit pedantic - especially as the OP is talking about going back to the South East of England, but there isn't a "UK" Eduction system.

The Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish(?) education systems are all different to varying degrees - with Scotland's the most different as we don't even sit A Levels (main exams, Highers, are sat in the equivalent of Y12 (S5), usually 5 of them (if you're academic),with the option of doing more/resitting/doing Advance Highers or even A Levels in S6 (=Y13/Upper 6th) - or even going to Uni straight from S5

Also, if you moved to Scotland 3 years before applying to Uni, Scottish Unis are free!

[KickAssAngel]

If you live in a state you get in state tuition fees. I'm on a green card and only had to pay in state fees. There was some extra paperwork to get my UK qualification Americanized, and I had to show my green card to prove I was a legal immigrant, but other than that I'm treated the same as an American.

If you had all moved back to the UK but one of your DC wanted to go to college in the US, I think that one of you may have to be resident, otherwise it would count as being international.

[DeliveredByKiki]

mummytime Thankyou - I hadn't thought of that. I should prob look into the rules of what constitutes an international student in the US too - if stayed for citizenship, would it then matter if we lived in the UK prior to American university applications? It would be great for DC to have opportunity to do higher education in either country if financially viable

kickass I think that's a good point. Although I worry about us moving DS when he will have done maybe a year of middle school and will be entering secondary at therefor a weird stage (year 8 or 9) but I would def want it to be well before GCSEs (or whatever they'll be by then). Our area has no decent public middle schools but if we knew it was just for one year and for only one DC we could prob afford the excellent private one, which hopefully would also get him up to the academic standard of UK so he can enter school at his age. Same with DD (who, if timelines work out, would be about 9 - so again not the greatest of timings to be moving with just a year or so of primary school left)

[KickAssAngel]

I also think that there's a huge difference between lots of moving and one, planned move at a certain stage. A good time to move is at the end of middle school (8th grade/year 9) before GCSEs start in the UK, or high school.

After that moving at end of 10th grade/year 11 is OK. But avoid doing a move between or after those grades, as the UK system does not cope well with students arriving part way through GCSE or A Level courses.

[YellowPrimula]

I know of several students at UK universities with US high school diploma , they generally have done a Foundation year first though,effectively making it a 4 year degree

[mummytime]

Real reason: just about every Us university will allow A'levels instead of 1st year University courses. Often you could shorten US uni by a year. (Although most student actually use the extra year to study more courses they are interested in.)
You can go to UK unis with Us qualifications, but will almost certainly need APs among other things.

One thing about UK is that the exam standard is externally verified, rather than based on teacher assessments.

Then they syllabuses of both countries take very different routes, maths is taught holistically in the UK rather than topic based in the US.