Aussie mumsnetters - how expensive is it?

[feeltheforce]

We have our visas and are planning to move later this year/early next year but people keep telling us - don't!

Several people we know who have visited family have said it is eye watering and their relations are struggling to make ends meet.

I am now having serious second thoughts as the salaries in my husband's profession seem lower. I'd really like some honest advice from the ground

Thank you.

[PeppaPigsMum]

We have been in Sydney for nearly 7 years (spent 6 months in Melbourne before that). The rundown of prices others have done match mine pretty well. Our family income is certainly less than $200k and we're doing fine - certainly not penny pinching. Rent is a big chunk of our wages though - we pay $700/wk for an old 3-bed weatherboard - and we are going to find it very difficult to afford to buy a house (where we live a 3-bed, 1 bath place in need of renovation will set you back $900k), but that's the price we pay for living 5 mins from the beach. If you aren't looking to stay long-term though I guess house prices aren't going to be an issue for you.

I have 2 dcs at public school and am happy with it so far. The oldest has some minor learning difficulties, and that has been a bit expensive to try to sort out - the specialist fees are not covered by Medicare - but health care has otherwise been OK. I'm lucky that we haven't had to visit the doctor too much. We go to a walk-in bulk-billing clinic, so don't pay anything for a doctors visit, and you don't pay for immediate emergency treatment at hospitals, but do have to pay for things like prescriptions, which could add up (I paid $48 for a double course of antibiotics for one dc last week. My friend also found she had to pay $200 for the permanent cast on her dc's arm when he broke it, which I was surprised at, but it's standard apparently). There is a scheme where the amount you pay for medicines is capped, and once you reach that you don't pay for prescriptions any more, but I think that's only for permanent residents or citizens - you wouldn't be able to claim this if you were on a 457 visa or another temporary visa.

The $4500 for public school is for children on a temporary visa, and I believe it only applies to NSW schools, so you'd be OK in Victoria. A friend of mine had to pay this upfront at the start of the school year before her kids could attend. I don't pay this now we are citizens, but we are asked for a 'voluntary' contribution each term to cover things like pottery, music lessons etc, and that probably adds up to around $1000/yr in total for 2 dcs.

I love it here, but dh and I actively looked to move over because we had spent a year travelling round here and felt a pull to return. I guess we didn't really think about the pros and cons as we were both sure we wanted to make the move. It must be more difficult when you don't have that certainty. Anyone visiting from the UK will find it excessively expensive because of the exchange rates at the moment. I found once we were earning in dollars we didn't think that way, and as someone mentioned earlier you just buy things differently. I'd say if you do come over then adapt as quickly as you can and don't compare everything - its different and there are trade-offs (the weather being one). Good luck with the decision.

[AussieDollar]

feel we're on a 457 visa so we have to pay for state school in NSW. It also means that we don't get help with childcare costs. Our permanent residency is currently being processed, when we have PR state school will be free (apart from the $150 a term the school asks for) and we'll get the child care refund.

Not owning a car is a nightmare, it's had a huge impact on what we can do/see. We sold our car for £6k in the UK, to get the same car here would cost around $30k! On the 457 visa we can't lease a car because the repayments have to be structured over the visa term and would be crippling. Again, when we have PR we will hopefully get a car.

I'm still confused by medicare. In order to get our 457 visa we needed to show that we had medical insurance. The policy we have is for 457 visa holders but doesn't seem to offer anything over and above reciprocal medicare (apart from ambulance rides, but you can get ambulance only cover). I think DH would have to pay a medicare levy if we didn't have the insurance though.

YY to oyster bay being $18 . Although since we've discovered Dan Murphy's we spend a lot less on booze.

[PeppaPigsMum]

bulk online shopping for wine is the way to go here :-) I was amazed when I first came over that Australian wine cost more here than it did in Tesco back home...

[AussieDollar]

massive cross post with peppapigsmum. I agree converting to GBP will send you mad. The first time I went into a supermarket here I came out empty handed and declared we couldn't afford to eat!

[PeppaPigsMum]

It took me a couple of years to stop converting $ to GPB, but it wasn't so bad when I first came over as the exchange rate was much more weighted towards the pound. I can imagine that it's a shock to the system if you do the same thing now!

[FanjoPaterson]

Mosman, where are you shopping? I did a top up shop at coles of fish, bread, milk, ham (not naice ham but strange toddler won't eat the good stuff) and cat food and it came out to $35, the most expensive being the cat food at $10 for a 2 kilo sack and $10 for the fish. I do fruit and veg at the markets.

Having been through the WA education system from years 8-12 (boarded in Perth from 8-10, moved back in with mum when she came over) and speaking to others of my age, it seems that in high school at least it doesn't matter if it's in an affluent area or not.

I live in Kelmscott/Armadale (a much maligned, low socioeconomic area of Perth, and not entirely without reason) and the closest SHS is Kelmscott. It's a very, very good school. Not "academic" as such but supportive and pastoral.

You might even find that smaller schools will find it easier to accomodate different needs- I can ask my DM if it would be of use, as she's well placed in the state school system to answer that kind of question.

[chloeb2002]

We showed nothing to get our 457. We were told as we have uk citizenship it's not required to have more. As the policy states... You are responsible for costs of healthcare. However you meet those is your problem. That was the feedback from immi.
We are a family of 4 kids and two parents and an au pair. I do an online shop for about 400$ a month. Then shop at the butchers for meat $100 a month.. Aldi, fruit barn, anywhere advertising specials and bulk... Bring on cost co! Will be another $300 a month. Food is more expensive here. But better quality. No mass farmed hormone driven meat for example. Fresh fruit n veg in season buying..
We now have solar for electrical so get money back on power. Will have paid for itself in 4 years.

Dd had a cast on her arm, public hospital, free ? As an ed nurse I have never seen anyone in q health be charged for a cast.. Private hospital maybe? Very odd...

[PeppaPigsMum]

Maybe the cost of a cast is another NSW thing? It was a private place that did it -they would only put a temporary cast on at the public hospital, and said she had to go to this other place for the permanent cast. No other costs concerned with the treatment. Like I said, I was surprised, but seems to be the norm here (loads of kids with casts on their arms or legs at the moment it seems!).

Saying that, I had my second dc here in Australia and it didn't cost a thing, even though I was on a 457 visa at the time - it was all covered by the reciprocal care agreement with Medicare. Also had a minor op which involved an overnight stay - again no charges from the public hospital (just a few months on the waiting list). I still don't understand how the healthcare works properly to be honest. I am going for a smear test next week, and don't think there are any associated costs at all, whereas someone else said she had to pay lab charges (sorry, can't remember names).

It can be confusing, but as I am fortunate enough not to have had to access healthcare a great deal it hasn't been an issue. Not sure how it would be for someone with a chronic condition.

[SavoyCabbage]

Schools set their own 'fees', or at least they do in Victoria where I am. Ours are about $1000 a year and then we have to pay for swimming, camp, supplies and all trips so probably about another $1000, maybe a bit more.

Our school has no reading books, but we have three slides and are currently raising $38,000 for some new.....playground equipment. We got a $4 million building improvement grant which was used to build a music room last year.

I'm a supply teacher in Melbourne and the schools vary massively. Some have NOTHING. The one I was at today had three dc who couldn't speak any English at all and no teaching assistant or anything to help them. They didn't have a clue what was going on. Some schools look amazing with great big libraries etc. Then you realise that they are so big that each class only has access to the library for 15 minutes a week.

[saffronwblue]

It is worth understanding that school education is mainly the province of each state. While we are moving towards a national curriculum, at the moment each state sets eg entry ages for school and the actual curriculum for year 12. So what is true for one state may not be true for another.

My son is in Year 9 at a state school here in Melbourne and I paid about $800 for his year, which included a donation. Books, laptop and camp are all paid in addition to that. My daughter ( long story) goes to an anglican grammar ( private) and her fees are $15,000 per year in Year 6!

[CadleCrap]

Op - we were in a huge growth area so lots of building going on and while it was very pleasant, it wasn't special enough for us to have made the move. We were a good 30 mins plus from an okay beach and over an hour to the nearest surf beach. Not quite the lifestyle we had in mind.

And Melbourne itself - what is it famous for? Nothing. So again while perfectly oaky it didn't have the wow factor like Sydney.

We have a 176 visa so are perm. residents and as such we have medicare which I have found pretty good. We also don't have to pay for schooling except from the "voluntary"non-voluntary fees.

Where we are now, it is FABULOUS although a bit country but we are perfectly fine with that. As land is cheaper we are in the process of having a house built!!

[WhataSook]

CadleCrap - how very dare you insult my Melbourne!

It's famous for it's great coffee, the MCG, the Australia Open, the Grand Prix, it's trams...the list goes on. What does Sydney have, only a bridge and a big old Opera House...

[echt]

CadleCrap, why should Melbourne, or anywhere else, be famous for anything to be worth living in?

Coffee? Not for me.

MCG? Sport. Meh.

Grand Prix. I wish it fuck right off. Yet all those things are undeniable draws.

The trams are lovely, as are the long, shallow bayside beaches; so democratic, so available, and the back beaches are another world. Theatre, art, music are all tremendous. The cafes, lanes, shops and restaurants are great.

[feeltheforce]

saffron that was an excellent (if depressing) link. MY LOs will be sad to hear no more big macs LOL.

[feeltheforce]

I can't thank you all enough for keeping posting and all the info on schools and cost of living . All your info is so helpful as I try to get my head round it.

My eldest has some physical probs which require Physio, Orthotics and Occupational Therapy. He gets free insoles here every three months. He also has to go to a special dentist every 6 months which here is provided free. Hence my interest in health care.

Q: why do people use doctors and not walk in clinics if the latter are free?

I really need to dig out the visa type we have. It is one where DH's profession is needed in Victoria and lasts 5 years (then you can renew). We have to stay in VIC for two years I think then can move around Australia.

[PeppaPigsMum]

At our walk in clinic you just have to take the next doctor available. If you book an appointment you have to pay I think. If you want a family doctor, as such, then you will almost certainly pay for your visits.

My daughter has had to have OT - we paid $60 for a 30 minute session and didn't get much back from our private health fund or Medicare. In my experience, dental care is expensive. We didn't visit the dentist at all when we were on a temp visa. Now we have health insurance which covers the basics. I'm sorry I can't help with information for costs of more long running health issues - hopefully someone else can.

PS I loved Melbourne - such an easy city to live in - and found it hard to move to Sydney after 6 months.

[Saltedcaramellavacake]

At the walk in clinic you just get the next cab off the rank, so to speak, with no continuity of care. It's okay for an adult with a one off type illness (flu, tummy bug or similar) but not much good for kids with chronic issues (asthma needing ongoing management etc). You can also wait a long time depending on the number of people who have "walked in" ahead of you. Not much fun with kids. Even in this type of setting, though, OT, physio, orthotics etc won't be free - just the GP visit.

[FanjoPaterson]

Bleh, walk ins. You get the doctor assigned to you- so if you go in for a Pap smear, you can't say 'I want a lady doctor' you get Doctor Two. Also the waits, holy crap. DP went to get a med cert for a nasty flu, took him four hours of waiting. Leave the building, lose your place.
I'd much rather drive the stupid distance and pay the fee for my lovely dr who I trust and have seen for years. I don't see her above six monthly anyway.

I suspect some physio would be medicareable but it can be pretty random and arbitrary. Orthotics aren't covered, wouldn't have a clue about OT. With issues like those I'd be getting private health.

If you're a spec wearer, get the damn things online. Your jaw will hit the floor and bore down to the water table at the cost.

I suppose you know this already, but water is precious here, please don't waste it
Not that it stops my council watering the road in mid winter, no, no it doesn't.

[Erebus]

Small point about education: I lived on Queensland's Sunshine Coast for 7 years (was in Oz 15 years all up), and had 2 DC there. Every, and I mean every private school was run by a church. Assuming it was true what others told us, which was 'don't touch the State secondaries unless you have to!!'... my options were:

2 x Christian Fundamentalist schools that taught Creationism as fact...
1 x Catholic school with all the attendant stuff
2 x Lutheran schools (biiig in an area with a rural hinterland- lots of ex-German farmers in Oz! Esp around Adelaide )- OK, but select carefully: one had 'toned down' a bit to attract 'Church of Christ' DC (and upped its fees), the other was practically German speaking! Our close neighbours, both Lutheran teachers, taught in both and told us as much.
1 x Methodist/Presbyterian school (fundraising raffles banned...) sport, Sport, SPORT!
1 x Anglican (Australian C of E) which is always the most expensive option but probably our choice though another neighbour (and good friend) was given a job there as a Y2 teacher following a single phone interview! Even she was a bit at the laxity of selection technique!

...and I wouldn't necessarily have wanted a religious based ed for the DC! On our 'Close' there were 14 school aged DC. I think 2 families there had DC at the same school. Not exactly promoting of community spirit!

As an aside, DH (an Australian) worked for the govt's Primary Industries in a research lab doing plant research and biology. They had quite a few school groups etc visiting, thus the noticeboards had educational posters on them. One of my DH's fellow biologists put in a formal complaint demanding the poster of Darwin be removed because it promoted Evolution over Creationism..... thankfully, he didn't succeed, but...

We are now in Hampshire, have been for 10 years and I have to say, we both feel our DC's life opportunities are better and more varied here in the UK than they would have been in Oz. They are at a local, well-performing comp. We like walking across hill and dale; real ale; cultural difference; a wider variety of friends, many who challenge us and our beliefs on a regular basis (I see this as a good thing); short distances and varied weather! Yes, even that! In QLD, with pre-schoolers, you have to keep out of the sun between 10am and 4pm every day as the sun hammers young skins. Then it's dark by 6pm at the latest! And, unless you 'live it' you actually don't realise how boring the same weather, day in, day out, can be!

Yes, we had a back-yard pool but the DCs aren't water babies and I'm still not entirely sure the hours and $$ I spend maintaining it equalled the 'pleasure' we got out of it! Seriously.

If I had to, I would return to Oz, but I wouldn't be knocking anyone down in the rush.

[Mutley77]

feeltheforce sorry havent been on this thread for a few days. However in response to one of your earlier posts I just wanted to say that I also worry about future security and we therefore have kept our house in england (rented) and continue paying into our investments in england with some of the profit from the rent. I am reassured that we can go back to england and be pretty much where we were. We have been really careful in early stages here so that we have not had to bring lots of money from england (i think we have managed to do it on about £6-8k, most of which was a deposit on a car) with us. Dh's comapany paid the relocation costs which i assume you will also get if your dh is highly desirable in his field.

In that respect i feel that anything we do earn can be enjoyed as we have our future being looked after in england. And fwiw if your children are in state education i would think you can have a pretty nice life on 200k. We are at the point where i can see we will be pretty comfortable financially and my dh earning less than that.

[WhataSook]

I think that is really good advise Mutley in keeping your house ect. It's a big move to go to the otherside of the world without any friends or family when you have children. Pre DC I moved so many times my CV is a bit embarrassing, but since DD I am a lot more cautious.

For me we are going 'home' (DH is not from the UK either) so there is no point us keeping our house here, we wont be back (or not back to London until the DC are out of schooling). If we had settled in DH's country though and I liked it as much as I have the UK then I probably would keep the house too as there might be a reason to return later.

I have the pull of family and friends in Australia and I am overwhelmed a bit about the whole move so I can only imagine how those that have no ties and DC feel about such a big move.

[idlevice]

I have similar views to Erebus. In our 5.5yrs in Sydney none of us ever went to the dentist or opticians because of the expense, & I also got into the state of not wanting to go to the GP unless it was dire because of the potential cost of not only the appt but also the prescriptions.

We didn't get private cover mainly because when we asked DP's Aussie co-workers (in a professional government organisation) none of them had it so we thought we'd be ok without. My experience of public health was grim for maternity & waiting lists but good for A&E.

[WhataSook]

well the flip to that idle is how freaking grim I have found using the NHS - when I don't get to choose which doctor I can go to yet have to pay for the one I'm given. I had finally found a good doctor and we moved...back at square one with hating to go.

I am in London so maybe it's different here, but I would NEVER have another child here. And this isn't slagging British as my midwives were British, Asian, Australian and Irish and they were all shite (apart from the Irish one who was lovely but cocked up badly...)

The NHS is not free, so taking out health insurance in Australia seems a no-brainer to me.

[CadleCrap]

WhataSook and echt I only asked what Melbourne was famous for and to the "average UKer" it is probably Neighbours but even that is old hat. Ii am only conveying MY experience as a Newbie to Oz

I like Melbourne but the OP is unlikely to be able to afford the inner city suburbs where you are able to get a tram home.

[twilight3]

hear hear whatasook... I did in fact go abroad to have my second baby as I couldn't afford private here (as I was paying thousands and thousands a year for "free healthcare" without opting out option) and I was too scared to have a baby on the NHS again...

And, yes, never got to choose my doctor, plus I only go to see them when things get really bad, as people are generally bullied out of using the system.

(not relevant to Oz, but since you mentioned it I couldn't help second it).