Other joint tenant of rental property has died. What do I do?

[saraclara]

My mum had a rental property in both our names as joint tenants. A rental agent deals with it, and I've never had anything to do with it. The rental money all went to my mum's bank account and went directly to help pay her care fees.

She died this morning. I know that I have to fill in a form for the Land Registry and enclose a death certificate, and basically the house becomes mine.

But what happens to the rent? I've never had any dealings with the agent. Never signed anything. The contract with them was arranged and signed by my mum.

I don't know where to start. At this point I don't even know the name of the agent, though I will tomorrow. What do I say to them? What should I expect?

[Kwasi]

I am very sorry for your loss. I hope you have the support you need.

I would imagine it’s just a case of a new contract being drawn up, which the agency will inevitably charge you a few hundred quid for.

[Luckydog7]

Yes, you just need to inform the agent. You may need proof of ownership and they can transfer the account to you. Potentially you may need a death certificate too.

Sorry for your loss.🌸

[Kwasi]

@Luckydog7

Yes, you just need to inform the agent. You may need proof of ownership and they can transfer the account to you. Potentially you may need a death certificate too.

Sorry for your loss.🌸

Oh yes, I didn’t think of this. It won’t be hard and, sadly, they will have dealt with your situation several times and have a procedure in place.

[cordeliachaseatemyhandbag]

Go to the citizens advice bureau.

[AllEars112232]

So sorry for your loss. You must be very over whelmed at the moment.

As a joint owner, and now the sole owner the rent should now be paid to you once you've given the agent proof of your ownership.
Your might want to wait before deciding about entering into a contract with this agent. You've got a lot of administrative things to do right now, so don't get pressured into signing new contract.

One word of caution, you say your mum was taking the rent to pay her care fees. Do your know if she was declaring the rental income to HMRC? This might need looking into (and also if you should have been declaring or too add technically 50% of that income was yours). Might be an idea to talk to an accountant about this.

[saraclara]

Thank you everyone. Your posts have clarified things for me, and there's some good advice here.

To answer the HMRC question, yes, the income was declared, so at least that's one less concern. And that's another thing I'll have to look into when the income comes my way.

Thanks also for the condolences. My head is spinning at this point. Your help and kindness is much appreciated.

[saraclara]

Okay, this is all getting grim.

My late mum had a 'financial advisor' who had POA and managed the purchase of this rental property, and liaised with the rental agent. She has already been in touch with the rental agent (who I think is her friend) and the agent was really horrible when I called and clearly unhappy that I was 'trying to take over'. Neither of them seemed to have a clue that this 'advisor' (who is also excutor of the will) has no authority to deal with them and the house now.

Can someone qualified please confirm that I'm right in thinking that:
a) the advisor's POA ceased with my mum's death, and
b) as my mum and I were joint tenants, the house reverts to me and is not part of mum's estate, so not within her remit as executor?

The phone call was so horrible. The agent was awful. She spoke to me like I was shit on her shoe, despite talking to someone who'd just lost her mum.

[Hoppinggreen]

I am really sorry and yes as far as I am aware a POA ends with death.
I also think that the house will revert to you now.
I do wonder if the awful attitude is because they have something to hide.
I lost my Mum last year and the admin was very distressing so if you have someone who you trust that offers to help do take them up on it.

[AllEars112232]

@saraclara

Okay, this is all getting grim.

My late mum had a 'financial advisor' who had POA and managed the purchase of this rental property, and liaised with the rental agent. She has already been in touch with the rental agent (who I think is her friend) and the agent was really horrible when I called and clearly unhappy that I was 'trying to take over'. Neither of them seemed to have a clue that this 'advisor' (who is also excutor of the will) has no authority to deal with them and the house now.

Can someone qualified please confirm that I'm right in thinking that:
a) the advisor's POA ceased with my mum's death, and
b) as my mum and I were joint tenants, the house reverts to me and is not part of mum's estate, so not within her remit as executor?

The phone call was so horrible. The agent was awful. She spoke to me like I was shit on her shoe, despite talking to someone who'd just lost her mum.

Oh no, this is grim! I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.
You are absolutely right on both counts. This friend no longer has a right to be involved with the management of this property. And it won't fall into your mums estate.

How strange that she had any authority at all as it was always a joint property and you had not given her a PoA!! We're you aware you're mum had done this?

As these people are being very awkward it's probably worth your while to pay for an appointment with a solicitor and get them to write a letter telling them both what the situation is now your mum has passed.

[saraclara]

How strange that she had any authority at all as it was always a joint property and you had not given her a PoA!! We're you aware you're mum had done this?

Yes, my mum used her services as the rental place is nowhere near where either of us live. And when mum had to go into care suddenly a couple of years later, we were only too glad to have someone looking after the finances of it all with mums POA.

I spoke to a solicitor on the phone this morning who gave me some free advice. If the issue continues, I now have someone to go to for back up.

[PickledMumion]

I'm really sorry you're having to deal with these complicated logistics at such a difficult time.

If this financial advisor is executor of the will, this could get a bit messy. I would seek independent legal advice from a solicitor (at £200+ per hour) as to the easiest way to move forwards here.

In what way were you a joint landlord if you never signed a contract and never received any rent? Do you just mean that the house is jointly owned? If you are now the sole owner, then you need to draw up a new contract with the letting agent. Again, I'd try and speak to a solicitor about this - it's worth paying for good legal advice if it prevents anyone unscrupulous from fleecing you whilst you're in this fresh turmoil of grief.

[Quizine]

If you are not co executor, make sure you get a full executor's account when Probate has been granted. Do you know the contents of your late mother's will and are you a beneficiary?

You are correct that a property held as joint tenants passes to the survivor and it does not form part of the deceased's estate for Probate.

So sorry for your loss. Take it one day at a time, everything becomes magnified during a bereavement I think.

[confusedlots]

Doesn't sound like this 'financial advisor' has been giving great financial advice and also worrying that they are executor of the will. A conflict of interest?

If the house is jointly owned you should have been declaring half the income to HMRC on self assessment. Why on earth would your portion be used for care fees?

However I do think you need to set this aside for the next few days or weeks, it can wait. You have a lot to deal with and are grieving for your mum. Get through the funeral and then look at it all with a clear head. Really sorry you're going through all this.

[MikeWozniaksMohawk]

If you are correct that you own the property as joint tenants then it passes to you as the surviving owner.

however if you and your mum held the property as tenants in common (which can include if your mum did something to “sever” the joint tenancy) then her share of the property will form part of her estate.

[saraclara]

Thank you everyone. I'm sure we're joint tenants. There are no restrictions on section B of the title deeds. I do wish they'd use the actual words in the deeds though.

I'm told that mum has paid tax on the entire rental income, as only she received it. The same person fills in her tax return each year.

[saraclara]

Do you know the contents of your late mother's will and are you a beneficiary?

I haven't seen the will yet but I believe that my sibling and I are the beneficiaries. But there's barely anything left other than the house, as everything else went to pay for more than a decade of care.

[caringcarer]

@saraclara

Thank you everyone. I'm sure we're joint tenants. There are no restrictions on section B of the title deeds. I do wish they'd use the actual words in the deeds though.

I'm told that mum has paid tax on the entire rental income, as only she received it. The same person fills in her tax return each year.

OP if you were tenants in common and the house was rented out then half of the rental income should have been paid to you. Did you not receive any of the rent money. You should have completed a self assessment and paid tax on your 50 percent of rental income. I don't understand why this didn't happen? You need to speak toma solicitor and get them to find out for you. Sorry for the loss of your Mum.

[AnotherEmma]

Sorry for your loss

Just to add that if you decide to continue renting out the property (rather than selling it) you could use a different lettings agent, start afresh with someone who hasn't been an arse to you at an already difficult time!

Good luck sorting it all out. I hope you have partner/friends/siblings to give you moral support and hugs!

[saraclara]

@caringcarer the rent all went to her care with my blessing. Although I was part owner, my mum paid the mortgage.
There was nothing untoward at that point. My involvement with the house went no further than my name being on the deeds.

[OneFrenchEgg]

www.taxinsider.co.uk/jointlyowned-property-and-rental-income-whose-is-it

Don't get hung up on the rental income and tax, see section 2. I used to work in tax and recall varying allocations amongst people.

[saraclara]

@OneFrenchEgg

www.taxinsider.co.uk/jointlyowned-property-and-rental-income-whose-is-it

Don't get hung up on the rental income and tax, see section 2. I used to work in tax and recall varying allocations amongst people.

Thanks! I was just about to be worried! But I was certainly told that it was part of Mum's tax return.

[BoringBoris]

If you were on the deeds then you were liable to pay tax on half of the the rental income. Have you been completing a tax return and declaring half of the rental income even if you have not been receiving it? If not you could find yourself with a significant tax bill- you need to get advice.

[saraclara]

@BoringBoris

If you were on the deeds then you were liable to pay tax on half of the the rental income. Have you been completing a tax return and declaring half of the rental income even if you have not been receiving it? If not you could find yourself with a significant tax bill- you need to get advice.

See@OneFrenchEgg 's link. As we were mother and daughter and not a married couple, she was able to pay all the tax.

Read section 2, example 4

[Allthegoodnamesarechosen]

My understanding is that as long as the income from the rental was declared and tax paid in full, there is no need to worry. The revenue neither know not care whether you received any of the money, the tax was paid correctly.

[Babyroobs]

@confusedlots

Doesn't sound like this 'financial advisor' has been giving great financial advice and also worrying that they are executor of the will. A conflict of interest?

If the house is jointly owned you should have been declaring half the income to HMRC on self assessment. Why on earth would your portion be used for care fees?

However I do think you need to set this aside for the next few days or weeks, it can wait. You have a lot to deal with and are grieving for your mum. Get through the funeral and then look at it all with a clear head. Really sorry you're going through all this.

I was just thinking exactly the same - why weren't you getting half of the rental income. Was the property just put in your name too to avoid it being sold to pay for care fees?