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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Legal matters

Am I being unreasonable regarding contact?

37 replies

Noname17 · 09/08/2018 14:27

A few weeks ago my ex was finally allowed contact with 2 year old DD whom he hasn't seen for over a year after DV incident. This is only temporary till the next hearing in a few months. He sees her every weekend for 2 hours, but after the first visit he wanted to extend the time so that DD can go back with him to his city and see his friends and DDs half brother and also he claims that there's nothing for him to do in my town. He's been bombarding me with emails and tries to argue with me every time during hand over.

I have never said no to the idea. Seeing as this order is only for a few months I thought it best for him to bond with DD. I even sent him a link of child friendly things to do in my town, he hasn't done any of the things but keeps complaining that there's nothing to do. He is now threatening to go for full custody because he "doesn't want restrictions in seeing his DD".

My issue is that when he goes to his friends, DD will be passed from one person to the other and have no time to bond with her dad and it might be too overwhelming for her and get unsettled. His friends or family will get the opportunity to see DD but right now it's about DD and dad and establishing that bond first.

Am I just being an ar$e?

OP posts:

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Noname17 · 16/08/2018 19:16

Yeah I think that's a trait SS are famous for. But the judge said that he admired my cool headedness and thinking about DD instead of letting personal feelings get the better of me. I think he was disappointed himself because he persuaded me to agree to contact which I've been refusing.

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YeTalkShiteHen · 16/08/2018 18:55

Good on the judge for bollocking him! It was needed. As always I’d go with what MrsBertBibby says.

PotteryLady · 16/08/2018 18:54

Hopefully he has been put in his place and it won't happen again.

SisterNotCisTerf · 16/08/2018 18:25

Glad to hear it! Hopefully OP doesn’t need to worry about it.

MrsBertBibby · 16/08/2018 18:13

Judges don't do that mealy mouthed shit, ime.

Social Services are often slippery bastards, but the Judge would have stopped contact if he thought that was necessary. He was giving your stupid ex a message that you are being reasonable, and that you might have persuaded him to suspend contact.

All the best.

SisterNotCisTerf · 16/08/2018 17:42

He was shocked that I was still ok that contact continue because he would have just suspended it right there. Said that will raise his concerns with CAFCASS because he is now questioning whether ex is capable of being a father.

Can I advise caution here? The judge is telling you he would have suspended contact, in other words he is saying that’s what he thinks you should have done, and he will be speaking to cafcass. They judge may tell them he feels you aren’t acting as a protective parent by allowing contact to continue under such circumstances. I’m not saying this to scare you, I’m speaking from experience. SS were very careful with their language and if I hadn’t been clued in I wouldn’t have picked up on the implication being made. One of the sentences used by the SW was “if I was being a protective parent I wouldn’t be allowing contact” it took me a minute or two but I twigged on what she meant. She couldn’t tell me to withhold contact but she could tell me what protective parenting looked like and then she told me the consequences of not being a protective parent. (DC being placed on CP plan) in your shoes I would listen very carefully to what is being said and if it is even suggested that you should have stopped contact (which IMO it now has!) then you should without question. To not do so calls into question your ability to make decisions in the best interest of your child.

Noname17 · 16/08/2018 17:31

Yesterday's update!
Went very well! Didn't get anything I asked for BUT the judge made it very clear that DD should reside with me and if ex break the order again to come back and he will either be fined or sent to prison and contact will be suspended. He was shocked that I was still ok that contact continue because he would have just suspended it right there. Said that will raise his concerns with CAFCASS because he is now questioning whether ex is capable of being a father.
It was really uncomfortable as ex was getting a very bad bollocking but what was said needed to be said.
Thank you all for the advice and support especially MrsBertBibby

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YeTalkShiteHen · 13/08/2018 13:54

All the best for Wednesday! I hope that it is phrased in such a way that he gets it into his thick skull and stops using contact as a means to control and abuse you.

Noname17 · 13/08/2018 13:51

I'm hoping the same thing too.
I'm a bit anxious at the moment, I was hoping it would be sorted out today but good thing is it'll be sorted out before next contact.
Will do another update

OP posts:

YeTalkShiteHen · 13/08/2018 13:42

Hopefully he’ll be told in no uncertain terms that contact is for time with his child, not to play stupid games and point score!

How are you feeling?

Noname17 · 13/08/2018 13:41

Update
Just been to court. Didn't see the judge. He's decided to give him notice, not sure if it's a positive thing or not. Hearing this Wednesday.

OP posts:

YeTalkShiteHen · 11/08/2018 20:38

Glad she’s home OP, how is she? Also glad the police took it seriously!

I’d be inclined to go for supervised contact if he’s going to put her at risk to make a point to you.

Noname17 · 11/08/2018 20:33

Got DD just before 8 this evening. Police actually listened to me and logged it. No explanation what so ever. Will be going to court first thing Monday morning. @redhelen not when her half brother is a drug dealer and drug user and not when the rest of family never bothered to come see her for a whole year whilst still living with ex. What's the urgency now. It was never about DD going to see her 'family', it was about him not wanting to be in my town with DD because 'there's nothing to do'. The man is a lazy, selfish bum.

Thanks to everyone for the advice, will update on Monday.

OP posts:

YeTalkShiteHen · 11/08/2018 17:55

Is she back OP?

RedHelenB · 11/08/2018 17:15

Being in contact with her half brother and family may well be a positive thing.

MrsBertBibby · 11/08/2018 14:57

Sometimes the police help, sometimes they refuse. Depends on the individual officer.

The fact is, it isn't their job to assist, unless the court asks them to help, and infuriating as it is, the officer who won't help is probably wiser than the one who wades in.

SisterNotCisTerf · 11/08/2018 13:16

The police can’t force him to give her back, (if he has parental rights) but it documents his breach of the court order.

I have no experience of it at all but there was a MNer posting a couple of days ago who had the police turn up and take her child as her ex had verbally changed the time for him to be returned and then called the police when the child wasn’t returned at original time.

YeTalkShiteHen · 11/08/2018 13:08

MrsBertBibby as usual with legal matters has it bang on OP.

MrsBertBibby · 11/08/2018 12:58

Assuming she is returned tonight, you need to

Complete a C100 requesting a Prohibited Steps Order with penal notice forbidding him to remove her from your care other than for contact ordered by the court. You could also ask for his CAO to be varied to allow contact centre contact only. Ask for an urgent hearing, and a without notice hearing.

Write a statement setting out what has happened and why you want these orders. Include the impact of his messing around on your daughter and on you.

First thing Monday, call the Court for an emergency without notice hearing. Different courts have different arrangements for this. You may need an appointment to issue at the counter, and then the judge will see you if they see fit, or give you a hearing on notice in a few days.

When is his next contact under the order?

Achafi · 11/08/2018 12:52

If there is a history of dv then that could make you eligible for legal aid. Contact t women's aid and they will be able to point you in the right direction. Good luck.

Noname17 · 11/08/2018 12:45

Just called the police and have been told it's not a criminal matter

OP posts:

Aprilshowersinaugust · 11/08/2018 12:32

Keep meticulous records of all of this. A judge will be very interested to learn your ex thinks he is above the court.
Actually he may have done you a favour.
But next hearing you need in that the police can bring dd home should he continue to be an arse.

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Berthatydfil · 11/08/2018 12:29

Does the order have (I think it called) penal clause?
This gives the police the power to arrest him (I think, hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along soon)
If not and you think he is going to be a dick then perhaps you need to consider getting it written into the next order.
He needs to remember that the only person with rights is his child, and contact needs to be in their best interests.
So you need to say (and get it in writing) “it’s in dcs interests to build up a secure reltionship with you by having one to one time in the first few weeks of contact”
He needs to say how what he is proposing is in her best interests (and just not what he wants)

Noname17 · 11/08/2018 12:17

He's now officially breached the order.

OP posts:

Noname17 · 11/08/2018 11:32

Can't afford solicitors as unemployed and also don't qualify for legal aid

OP posts:

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