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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Legal matters

Dds landlord, is he trying it on?

36 replies

SidneyPiecrust · 30/08/2016 21:47

Dd and two friends share a uni rent. Landlord makes them pay half rent over summer when they are not allowed to stay in flat. Dd left for summer in June a d has today been informed that flat was left in worse state ever and would. Need prof cleaning. I saw flat when d left was not in a star. Think he is trying it on, what can broke, now tearful dd do?

OP posts:

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SuburbanRhonda · 01/09/2016 18:57

their possessions are able to stay in the property in the meantime.

So how does their possessions insurance policy work over the summer, when the property is unoccupied and the LL (and his mates - who knows who can enter while the tenants aren't there?) has free and unfettered access to the property during that time?

Genuine question - my DD paid full rent over the summer and was living in the property and working.

SuburbanRhonda · 01/09/2016 18:41

So their deposit is clearly not in a DPS. He simply cannot do this, OP. It's not "dodgy as hell", it's against the law.

If you read my links you'll know that if the tenants' deposit is not in a DPS the landlord the tenants can get compensation in addition to their deposit back in full.

I asked upthread but you didn't reply - what are the tenants doing about this? Who have they spoken to for advice? If they roll over and let the landlord take money that doesn't belong to him for cleaning that he has no proof is necessary, he'll stitch them up like a kipper when the tenancy comes to an end.

Then he'll do the same to the next set of tenants.

SidneyPiecrust · 01/09/2016 12:52

Thanks again for replies.

So here is the latest. CD is waiting for email from all with what the cleaning problem is. He intends paying for it from their deposits which they then have to repay. Dodgy as hell 😬.

OP posts:

HereIAm20 · 01/09/2016 10:26

As said above it is quite a normal set up for students to pay half rent over the Summer holidays to keep the tenancy going for the following year at uni and as above their possessions are able to stay in the property in the meantime.

As the tenancy has not yet come to an end there should not yet be an issue about the state of the property - that is something that will arise at the end of the tenancy so far as deductions from deposits etc. It may just be the LL telling the students they need to up their game as far as cleanliness is concerned.

Also as mentioned are you sure the students have not received an email from The Deposit Protection Scheme which they may just have deleted as spam. It is usual for the LL to take the deposit but then place it in the scheme and it is the scheme that contacts the tenant with the reference direct.

SuburbanRhonda · 31/08/2016 21:35

Good point, jen.

LLs have to give 24 hours notice to tenants if they want to come into the property, unless it's an emergency (eg gas leak).

JenLindleyShitMom · 31/08/2016 21:01

What was the landlord doing in the house? Who let him in? Did he request permission for access to inspect the property over the summer? He can't just go in when he likes without permission, regardless of whether he lives next door and he can't deny them access over the summer of they are paying rent.

SuburbanRhonda · 31/08/2016 20:58

Arranging for a deep clean at the end of a tenancy and if the property requires it is standard, I agree. However, just because four male students lived in the property doesn't mean the need for a deep clean is inevitable. It depends how untidy they are.

If the property has been allowed to deteriorate compared with its condition at the start of the tenancy the LL still needs to provide proof of this in the form of photos and a checking-in inventory signed by the new tenants. And the LL still has to make a claim on the deposit through the deposit protection scheme.

Sootica · 31/08/2016 20:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scaryteacher · 31/08/2016 15:24

I agree that upping the deposit isn't legal if the tenancy is rolling over, but my ds had a new tenancy for this year, with slightly increased rent. The l/l was happy to keep the deposit as opposed to getting it out of the scheme, and then me giving it back again, so no rise there, but he could have insisted.

The paying half rent over the summer is entirely normal for student lets, has been since the 70s iirc, it means that the l/l doesn't have a 3 month void over the summer holidays.

As for the cleaning, we are abroad, so it costs less to have the l/l arrange to have the house cleaned, than it would cost for me to go back to UK and do it. £120 in total for a 4 bed house after a year of occupation by 4 lads didn't sound too bad!

SidneyPiecrust · 31/08/2016 12:08

Yep she's going for the easy option but now mum really does know best. Thank you all.

OP posts:

SuburbanRhonda · 31/08/2016 12:05

She doesn't know best, though, does she?

If she allows her LL to walk all over her he will no doubt pull another stunt at the end of their tenancy. Please show her this thread and explain to her that her LL is breaking the law and she has nothing to fear from standing her ground.

And don't feel afraid to step in on her behalf. DD's LL allowed her to stay an extra week beyond the end of her tenancy but kicked her out a day early as he said he had cleaners coming in. So I phoned and told him she was paying 6 days rent and that was the end of it.

SidneyPiecrust · 31/08/2016 11:55

Thank you all again. She's at work til later so no idea yet but this morning she sounded like she would just do it to keep the peace and tenancy. Now I'm armed with more info hopefully I can change her mind but obviously I'm just her mum and she know best 😕

OP posts:

Nobodysproblem · 31/08/2016 11:54

Even throw in a 'I'm sure you protected the deposit given its a legal requirement' if needed!

Our landlord tried to do the same to us when we were at uni, the house was a dive as it had a major leak he wouldn't fix, we ended up getting our deposit back in full.

Nobodysproblem · 31/08/2016 11:52

I'd play the informed protective mother card. Say you've photos of the flat and was wondering if he could provide you the reference of the deposit scheme he enrolled their original deposit in, as for some reason your DD didn't get a letter stating where if was, so you can compare photos and dispute his claim if needed.

He's legally required to give all their deposit back if it's not in a scheme, plus compensation. He's unlikely to kick them out given the grief that'd cause him, but make sure she contacts the uni ASAP to make them aware as they could either get involved or find her alternative accommodation if it's needed.

SuburbanRhonda · 31/08/2016 11:50

OP, I'll say it again - she needs to take advice on this. He cannot force money out of them and if he tries to evict them for this, they should follow the advice in the Shelter link I sent you and click on the part for when a landlord has not put their deposit in a DPS.

Her landlord needs to provide before and after photographic evidence of any claim that the tenants have damaged the property or left it in an uninhabitable state, which is what he seems to be implying.

What is she and the other tenants doing at the moment to resolve this?

SuburbanRhonda · 31/08/2016 11:46

Some landlords are very good, it's true. And if someone is happy to pay out for cleaning that's fine.

But in the OP's DD's case the landlord hasn't put the deposit in a DPS as he's legally obliged to do and he is threatening to increase the amount of the deposit (despite that amount being specified in the tenancy agreement) to cover cleaning costs which are disputed by the tenants.

SidneyPiecrust · 31/08/2016 11:45

I've met ll and he seemed nice but is def trying it on. In his words it was left in a state the worst he'd ever seen. It most def was not the case and if it was in his eyes, why wait until tenant contacts all two months later so drop this info? Dd is so worried he will try and get rid oof them if they don't comply.

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scaryteacher · 31/08/2016 11:29

My ds is returning to the same house for this coming academic year. The l/l has kept the deposit as ds is returning. There was a charge for a deep clean, but as four lads had been in there, so fair enough. I think it worked out at about £30 each.

Ds had to pay half rent in July, then full rent from August, but the l/l doesn't charge in June, so he is fair. He also picks up the cost of the broadband and will provide new equipment when the old is broken. Ds reported to him that the microwave was arcing, and the interior was peeling, and he was round there the next day with a new one for them.

I have net the l/l and he is very nice. We understand each other!!

SuburbanRhonda · 31/08/2016 11:03

He cannot increase the deposit as your DD will have signed the tenancy agreement specifying the amount of the deposit.

You need to address the issue of the deposit not being in a DPS. Phone Shelter and get advice from them. Or is there anyone in the student union who can advise them?

The LL doesn't have a leg to stand on. He cannot force them to pay anything.

SidneyPiecrust · 31/08/2016 10:54

The is for your help. I've read links, will show dd later. I can't help wondering why he was ts to increase deposit rather than get them to pay for the clean?

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SuburbanRhonda · 31/08/2016 10:49

And the amount of the deposit should be specified in their shorthold tenancy agreement.

He absolutely cannot increase their deposit to do home improvements. It is the tenants' money - he can't touch it unless he makes a claim on it through the correct procedures and the tenants agree to that claim.

OP, please read the links. Everything your DD needs to know about protecting her deposit is explained really clearly in them.

SidneyPiecrust · 31/08/2016 10:45

Sorry just re read post. He is breaking the !aw.

OP posts:

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SidneyPiecrust · 31/08/2016 10:43

He is not subletting as their stuff is still there, they are just back for the summer. The property is attached to landlords so he is around as it were. Its their final year so they don't need this which I think he is counting on.

Is landlord required by law to put deposit in a scheme?

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SuburbanRhonda · 31/08/2016 10:29

OP, please read the links I posted.

Your DD's landlord is already breaking the law by not placing their deposit in a deposit protection scheme. And it definitely sounds like he allowed people to stay in the property over the summer if he's not allowing the tenants to live there. He's probably counting on your DD and her friends not knowing their rights and being desperate for somewhere to live.

Get them to contact their local authority housing department for advice if he is threatening them with eviction.

What does it say in the tenancy agreement about the deposit and the very odd summer holiday arrangement?

SidneyPiecrust · 31/08/2016 10:23

Ddis worried he will ask them to leave if they don't agree. Very hard to find somewhere else now, busy uni town. He wants to increase the deposit rather than make them pay up front.

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