Our stuff at PILs', they won't let us have it back.

[MilchandCookies]

The stuff is actually gold and silver coins worth a considerable sum. They have always been kept in their safe, as DH and I were in rented a while with nowhere to keep them. And then there are the savings books for accounts FIL opened in DCs' names, but refuses to let us have the books for.

Narcissistic arsehole FIL summoned DH to come and pick the coins up, saying he no longer wanted to be burdened by them. When DH arrived, FIL decided he wasn't going to let DH have them and took the opportunity to scream and shout at him instead. (We are in the process of going no-contact.) He laughed at the suggestion DH take the savings books. He said if he was going to save money for the children, it was going to be completely on his terms and had nothing to do with us.

When DH felt that FIL was going to get violent, he left, empty-handed. And very shaken.

How do we get the coins and the savings books? We can prove we are the legal owners of the coins, and as the accounts are in the children's names we are the legal owners of the books, too. But if he won't let us have them back, what can we do?

Many thanks.

[CarrieLouise25]

Oh yes, it's really hard living so close. I hate confrontation, so I do dread bumping into anyone. If we had the money, we'd move

Also, every so often we do get them at our door and one particular family member is v aggressive, so when the door goes we always check before opening. It does upset me.

I am blamed for the family fall out too. It's like narcissists have a handbook that they all follow!

We are not rich either, but wow, Leanne - walking away from £2m+ - it's worth every penny when that control is no longer there. You are right, it's liberating. Plus, who's to say you would get it anyway? As soon as you do 'wrong', you'll be back to being disinherited. Horrible control game.

They still save for the DC's, and I hate it, but I can't control it. I feel very lucky, I have an incredible DH who has supported me every step of the way through my awful family, and we have 3 wonderful children. It's my chance to right my own childhood by giving my kids unconditional love.

Not that going NC is easy, but I hope you will find it a bit easier being a 2 hour drive from them.

Good luck

[MilchandCookies]

to Leanne and Carrie. It must be very hard living in the same village as them. PIL are a two-hour drive away from us, so there's no danger of just bumping into them.

FIL does, however, regularly drive past our exit to the motorway just ten minutes down the road when he's on one of his business trips. I do worry that one day he will just turn up, and I will have to lock the doors and call the police. I don't mean to be overdramatic, but I know he blames me (and his other DILs) for the whole fall-out. And that scares me.

[LeanneBattersby]

Like Carrie, we have walked away from a similar situation. FIL has used husband's £2m+ inheritance to control him for years. We've walked away and written off the inheritance. It's very liberating. We're not rich, but we don't need money to be happy.

FIL veers between being in denial about our very low contact (we live in the same village and see them around most days. We nod hello), being totally confused about the situation and being apoplectic with rage about how my husband can just walk away from such riches.

[MilchandCookies]

Thank you, Carrie, and to the others for your supportive posts. It helps to know we're not the first to go through something like this. "No contact means no contact" is my new mantra. Any presents will be given to the refugee charity here. That will tickle FIL.

We are going to write off the coins and expect to never see them again. And we are going to leave the savings books with FIL. He can continue paying in if he wants. The accounts are in the DCs' names. The money is theirs. (That's why we had to sign to open the accounts, as parents. FIL isn't just saving willy-nilly in one of his own accounts for them. It's a massive long-term interest-on-interest savings account that you have to pay into every month for 25 years.)

[CarrieLouise25]

We have the exact same situation. We went no contact. We left behind all the things they were storing for us. Used as blackmail but we walked away.

They still send cards etc, we bin them. No contact means no contact.

Stay strong, don't engage, don't let them win.

Life is bliss without them.

we tell the kids that not all families are good and that mine are not. We tell them no one has the right to hurt you, and just because they are family doesn't mean you have to put up with it.

good luck, and well done to you and your dh for protecting yourselves and your family from narcissism.

X

[00100001]

I think the OP did have the coins at one point, but they were put in PILs safe temporarily.

[00100001]

I think the OP did have the coins at one point, but they were put in PILs safe temporarily.

[tribpot]

I understand why you feel you own these coins but in reality they were gifts (imaginary or otherwise) which the giver has never actually given you. As he now declines to do so, I'm not sure what you can say. A solicitor's letter might be worth a try, although I suspect it is only going to cause another almighty shitstorm. As you have no relationship to salvage it might be worth it get your hands on the actual coins but it would be more prudent to write them off and move on, I think.

I would probably give the presents to charity, particularly if you can find one FIL would really dislike (somehow I don't think this will be hard). No acknowledgements.

[annandale]

I'll accept that I have no experience of this level of behaviour, though I have kept one gp fairly separate from ds, but rather like the savings accounts I would let the dc have the presents as part of a possible future relationship. Right now you would clearly be protecting your dc to keep them apart but there will come a time when it's not your decision any more.

[WorkWorry]

OP, even if you got these books, you couldn't stop ILs saving for your DCs - they could open new accounts. So just forget about the whole thing.

And if you don't need the money from the coins now, then just enjoy the peace that NC allows you.

[redshoeblueshoe]

Sorry yes just give the presents away

[Bubblesinthesummer]

If you are going no contact, don't send the presents back. Sending them is a form of communication/contact. Bin them or, if you prefer, give to a charity shop.

^ this. Please I would personally not accept any more money for the DC in the savings account either tbf.

[aginghippy]

If you are going no contact, don't send the presents back. Sending them is a form of communication/contact. Bin them or, if you prefer, give to a charity shop.

I think you are handling it just right in terms of telling the dc. 'They haven't been kind to us, so we don't want to see them' is honest and age appropriate. If dd asks again, that will still be true. You don't need to make an announcement about going no contact.

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

You'll need to be specific and accurate when dealing with the bank because your average person working there is poorly trained on all matters related to trusts, power of attorney and how to administer and execute estates - so you need your wits about you to avoid wasting your time.

I say this as someone with many years experience in the industry and a dh who is still there.

[MilchandCookies]

Thanks, red.

[MilchandCookies]

Ok, fair enough, Moving. I'm not good with the legal jargon.

[redshoeblueshoe]

I'd return all presents marked no longer at this address
Its very hard going NC, but you need to walk away and don't look back.
It is also very satisfying not having to dance to someone else's tune and still being vilified.
Forget the coins, forget the accounts. Good luck

[MovingOnUpMovingOnOut]

It is extremely unlikely you have "power of attorney" for a child's account. It is much more likely it is just held in trust and that is different to power of attorney.

[MilchandCookies]

Yes, there is. MIL is abused by FIL on all levels. She is terrified of him and would never step out of line. She is no longer in contact with her own family because FIL engineered a huge fall-out (over money, surprise, surprise). She has no access to money, no bank account, no idea how to live in the real world. She is his slave, and does everything he says. She used to tell me how unhappy she was and how she wished she could leave him. But now, fully Stockholmed-syndromed, she has lied about us all, fueled his anger and fire by making up things that never happened, and says she agrees wholeheartedly with whatever FIL says.

It's awful. DH and I tried for years to help her, but we can't save her. It's so sad.

[nancy75]

Is there a mil in any of this? What does she have to say about it all?

[MilchandCookies]

They send the DC presents for birthdays, Christmas, etc. What do we do with them if we go completely no-contact? So far over the last year we have sent thank-yous, but I don't even want that anymore. Should we send presents back? Throw them away?

And what do we tell the DC? DD is nearly 4 and asks whether we are going to visit PIL anytime soon. So far we've just said they haven't been very kind to us, so we don't want to see them. She accepts that at that moment, but still asks again every so often. DS is too young to remember them.

[GiddyOnZackHunt]

Pursuing this keeps you involved with him on some level. That's giving him power.
Totally disengaging is the only way to remove his power.

[MilchandCookies]

The coins already belong to DH. They are his. But they have always been kept in the safe at PILs', because up until 18 months ago we had no place to store them safely, and we had a reasonably civil relationship with PIL. There had been no reason to take them. The same applies to the other brothers' coins. (Yes, Tribpot, they are just like that.)

The reason DH went to get them is because FIL demanded he did. We got a letter saying that he no longer wanted to be burdened with looking after them for us if we weren't going to "let" him be a part of our lives. So DH dutifully went to pick them up. We would never have even bothered if FIL hadn't asked. When DH arrived, as I said, FIL just screamed and shouted and refused to let DH take them with him. So DH left.

The accounts are in DCs' names, and we as parents are the signatories with power-of-attorney until the children are 18. FIL cannot empty or close the account. We cannot do that either unless we have the books. I haven't lied to the bank ever, which is why I couldn't report them lost -- the bank knows the books are with FIL. They have also just confirmed the books are the property of the account holder, i.e. DC, or us, while the children are under 18. Their advice is to leave the books with FIL and let the children decide what to do when they are adults. FIL can stop paying in at any time, obviously, and if he does the bank will let us know (and give us the option of taking over the payments or letting the account be closed automatically due to no payment).

My original post was wondering what our next step would be if we wanted to get them back. Solicitor's letter/small claims court seems like the logical thing to do, if we really want to go down that road. Which I'm not sure we do now. I think everyone's suggestion of walking away is the most sensible thing to do. He needs us to keep playing this game in order to have power over us, and if we don't play, we can't lose.

The brothers are so far sticking together, thank goodness, but none of the others are ready to go no-contact. FIL plays them off against each other constantly, which is horrible.

[Fishface77]

I would walk away.
It's being used to control you. It was never physically yours in the first place and you don't need any of it.
He's saving for his grandkids which he can do by other means so if he gives you the books it means nothing.
Leave him to it. If your going nc go nc because at the moment he's still controlling you.

[titchy]

I suspect you were signing that your dc's were eligible to receive the interest tax-free. Only parents can make that declaration. It doesn't negate the fact that your fil is the trustee and as such you have no right to manage the accounts.

Walk away.