What's a 'Deed of Variation'?

[HexBramble]

I've opened the mail this evening and found a large document from one of the main banks. It has the name of a deceased's relative on it and says it's a "Deed of Variation discretionary settlement" and also what looks like forms to see if my tax code needs to be adjusted.

I have no idea what this is. I was close to the relative that died but assumed that everything had gone to their next of kin. This next of kin became power of attorney when my relative became ill with Alzheimer's.

I don't want to to contact the relative in anyway shape or form since they guarded my relative's estate with insane jealousy and I don't want to draw attention to the fact that something was arranged by my relative prior to them getting ill thus making our relationship worse.

Sorry for the ramble - I have no idea what the document is and all banks are shut til morning!

[Cel982]

I think the sensible thing to do would be to get a copy of the will (via the website linked above), OP. If it is as your mother has described it, then you don't need to worry about it any further.

[fastdaytears]

Tarty I was a kid when they all happened and not reading many legal journals but I've looked on the font of legal knowledge that is Google and it seems to be the opposite. The only reason it's controversial is that there was some Inheritance Tax planning involved which is a bit when it comes to the royals/ex royals. Not really the done thing.
16 Godchildren inherited though. I cannot imagine having 16 Godchildren.

[fastdaytears]

I'd bereluctant to make make a giant fuss (inc SAR which rightly or wrongly...wrongly probably will get back to mum) because if aunt left it all to mum and she's set up a deed of variation to benefit the OP eventually then she can almost certainly disinherit her. Which might be worth it if the mum's a proper cow but might not.

[Tartyflette]

The only thing i have heard about a deed of variation was after Princess Diana died. Apparently she had keft generous bequests to quite a few people, god-children and so on. Her brother and sister sought a deed a variation to her will to change these bequests from £chunkyfivefigures to 'mementos of the late princess from her personal belongings. ' eg books, small bits of jewellery etc. Thought it was a very mean thing to do as her will was worth many millions. And i think they succeeeded.

[fastdaytears]

No, the bank has the details because they have the trust deed! We agree that she's most likely a beneficiary and her details will be on that.

We don't agree that it was her inheritance in the first place- hence the deed of variation, or that she can get the trust wound up- because all of the trusts done for these reasons are discretionary with the original beneficiary named as well as their kids. I have three to write before I lunch (MN not helping as you can imagine). It's so common that this makes me guess it's what happened here.

TLDR: the bank has her details for legitimate reasons but didn't have permission from mum as trustee to contact her so are backtracking with this error nonsense.

[Ricardian]

There is an error because the bank isn't a trustee and ploughed on with all this without the mum agreeing to the OP being contacted and is now back tracking.

Had the OP replied with her tax details, who was going to see that information?

Assuming the OP isn't a customer of the bank in question, on what basis is the bank holding her name and address? The OP might for amusement value and the sake of a tenner make a data protection act subject access request on the bank and find out what they've got and where they got it from.

[fastdaytears]

But no, I don't go round asking random third parties for their tax code without explaining why! Not even for lolz! But I have never been tempted to provide legal or tax advice through a high street bank and they do some pretty odd things IME.

[fastdaytears]

There is an error because the bank isn't a trustee and ploughed on with all this without the mum agreeing to the OP being contacted and is now back tracking. Why a bank is even involved I don't know, but the presumably thought the mum had already notified the new beneficiaries.

[Ricardian]

But fastdaytears, then it isn't an error, is it?

And you don't go around asking random third parties for their tax code without explaining why, surely?

[fastdaytears]

Ricardian the most likely thing will be though that it was the mother's inheritance which has been put in trust for the OP (and some other people) in which case it can all be done without her input. Bank will have had to run AML checks and might have thought tax code helpful with that, or might be advising on whether to distribute any income in which case tax code again useful.

[Ricardian]

I think a lot of people are missing the OP's point.

If the OP isn't named in the will, then any deed of variation that might arise is no more her problem than it is my dog's problem if I had a dog. Therefore the "accidental" part doesn't cut it, because why is her name linked to the estate in question in order for the "accident" to occur?

If the OP is named in the will, then a deed of variation may or may not require her signature (it requires the signature of everyone affected, not all beneficiaries) but it's a little odd that it should have been sent out if a DoV were not, in fact, being drawn up?

The business about the tax code is particularly odd. You don't pay income tax on inheritances, but you do pay income tax on distributed income from invested inheritances; if someone puts money in trust with the income payable to you, that money is taxable as income.

But if you're 41, you can dissolve such trusts; executors cannot, for example, put money left to an adult beneficiary into a trust over the head of the beneficiary - the classic "oh, they'll spend it all" - whether the deceased wants it or not, because the beneficiary can simply have the trust dissolved (this is not legal advice, reality is more complex, there are exceptions, etc etc).

So the whole thing is most odd. Over on MSE's fascinating death and probate board, there's a bizarre story of an elderly executor who has completely misinterpreted a will that asks her to sell property and distribute the proceeds as sell property and keep the proceeds, and much fun is ensuing.

OP, the power of attorney is irrelevant: it ceases with death. You need to investigate what's going on because it all sounds very, very odd. Who is the executor, by the way, your mother or the bank?

[Rangirl]

In Scotland the Deed of Variation only has to be signed by person giving up an entitlement and not be all beneficiaries

[fastdaytears]

You can get a copy of the Will very easily as linked above but a deed of variation isn't public. Have a look at the will and see if you're named (other than in substitution for your mum). If you are, your mum can't vary the will without you being involved (or not to give away anything due to you anyway). If you're not then she can do what she likes.

The solicitor will just direct you to the probate registry website and will tell your mum you called.

Is your mum over the inheritance tax threshold (ie is she worth £325k or more without this inheritance)? If she is and you want my guess, she's done a deed of variation putting the money into trust for her and you which is a tax planning thing and really standard. It is personal to her though so if she's a bit moody at the best of times she probably won't tell you.

[HexBramble]

Otto - because I don't know why my name would be linked to the deceased's name in the first instance IYSWIM.

[ottothedog]

Sorry that sounds abrupt
Genuine q tho. I would take that explanation as sounding entirely likely.

[ottothedog]

Why arent you happy with the banks explanation that it was sent in error to a large number of people?

[Ememem84]

why would they be obliged to let your mum know? Because she's the executor? sorry if I missed that

I don't think they would because I think that technically their client would be the deceaseds estate. If your mums the executor she's only acting for and on behalf of the estate. I think. I'm not a lawyer.

I'd be doing one or all of the following:

Look up the solicitor who drafted the document. If it's real not saying at all that it's a forgery there should be the name of the firm on the front page. Look them up online. Check to see if they're registered by the s r a.

Call solicitors. Just their general number and ask for someone to ring re the case. Again if it's real they will do this.

Tell your mum you'll sign. But that you need a solicitor to look at it first so you understand it and how if affects your rights etc.

[HexBramble]

We have a difficult relationship. I find myself (aged 41) unable to ask her directly. It's only recently that we seem to be getting on. Thus will certainly put an end to it.

[notapizzaeater]

Rather nuclear than fraud ?

[HexBramble]

Em it's tempting.
Would they be obliged to let my Mum know? I can imagine she'd go nuclear on me 'interfering'...

[Ememem84]

Do you know who your aunts solicitor was? Or which solicitor drafted the document? If so maybe call them to see if they can shed any light on it?

[HexBramble]

Thanks Welly. That's what I understood too - any DoV that affects the beneficiaries has to be agreed by the beneficiaries and their signatures must be obtained on an official document for it to become valid and legal.

Ive agreed and signed for absolutely nothing! Receiving this document from the bank, albeit in error, is the first I've ever heard of it.

[WellyMummy]

We did a DoV 12 years ago. It was my understanding that they could only be used with the agreement of the beneficiaries involved. Wills are available to purchase - you should be able to buy a copy once probate has been granted.

Please note that this is from personal experience, I'm not a lawyer!