Sick child today. Should contact go ahead tonight?

[HaventGotAStitchToWear]

Hi
Any replies much appreciated. Child very sick today. Don't want to send to Daddy's for 2 the 2 hours tonight and don't feel comfortable sending her sibling either. If sibling goes she will be upset. Not sure what to do and my legal advisor not on hand. Also 6 hours contact tomorrow.
In the court case, one of the points I am making is that Daddy is not able to properly look after children's needs when sick. She will feel left out if her sibling goes.
Please advise!
Thanks

[PaperLantern]

TBH aslong as the courts see childreen haaving contact with both parents on a regular basis they are likely to take the quickest course of action that gets the case out of court. Emphasis all the times that access has taken place and if you have done anything special to faciliatate that (eg one Christmas I have DC to the doctors for anitbiotics on the first day of illness because I was "trying to promote access"). once I worked this out, instead of answering all the allegations on a case by case basis things got a whole lot easier.

[nicknamegame]

Hi paper, thanks for the advice. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with family courts. We are up for a final hearing soon and it scares the hell out of me to be honest. I too have trouble being able to disprove the things my ex is saying about me regarding missed contact and fear I will fair badly:-/

[PaperLantern]

Hi Sorry I have came back to this thread late.

Have had fairly awful experiences in family court won't go into the background here, awful because I couldn't prove what had happened and the actions I took without that proof look like I was blocking contact. Surfice it to say I now have to avoid any action that appears to be blocking contact.

That said for very good reason I do not send the kids when they are sick, young children want to be at home. I know all to well that horrid sickening feeling about making a decision because I get a torrent of abuse and threats of court action surrounding the his rights over the kids. So far it has never come to anything because frankly as long as it's a very rare occurrence it looks a little stupid in court.

Courts have previously accepted that DC might want to stay at home after they've been in hospital and therefore access was missed so I work from that basis. Whilst Courts are pretty evidence based, they do occasionally show some common sense aswell.

Personally I'd recommend offering to rearrange cos it's hard to argue you're blocking access. I generally don't because in my case it requires more conversation with me ex than is healthy for all concerned. If either child is ill in the lead up to access I warn ahead and visit the doctors to document. Ideally if it can be treated I try to get antibiotics sooner rather than later

[nicknamegame]

My dd had a nasty case of chickenpox last year, and ex and I were right in the middle of a court hearing regarding residency. He insisted she come to his for contact, and she was lying on the soda like a rag doll. I offered for him to come visit, he wouldn't. I offered to let him visit and I would leave my own house....he wouldn't. I offered to 'pay back' the time when she recovered. He wasn't interested and literally bombarded me with emails demanding his contact. Dd had the pox in the most unfortunate of places and could barely talk on the day in question, yet he insisted I was blocking contact. I was terrified because he said he would be contacting cafcass to tell them 'what I did' and telling the judge. He might well do yet as the case is still rumbling on....but I honestly believe I did the right thing.

[balia]

BUT fathers are seem as great guys they work and look after there kids and belong on a pedastal at court, whilst mothers are nasty uncaring women, so be warned

balia: we are talking about contact not a residence order here.

This case is about contact. Your point is general and implies pro-father bias in family court. There are very few statistics so splitting hairs absolutely proves your point.

[betterthanever]

lostdad is your court case still going on?
I have read many of your posts and there are things I have agreed with and things I have not but on balance your hurt about your own individual circumstances shines through.

And whilst sometimes you talk wider than your own issues, it always comes back to contact blocking mother types'. <br /> <br /> FNF has a real problem with the title and I am afraid in some cases, it isn't true that a particular family needs a father but only in the same way as FNM would not work either, BECAUSE it's a generalisation and if there is one thing I am sure everyone would agree on... every case is different.<br /> <br /> There is no doubt that the system needs reform but it needs parents to come together and find common ground to do this together and drop the father' and mother' elements and use parent'.

The issue of `evidence' I have to say is a big thing for me too (as I say I do agree with some of what you post). It's brushed under carpets.

I feel for you, you know, I think you were badly treated but please don't think we are all the same...
I promise you that most are not like your ex and I know most are not like mine either.... you are def head and shoulders above him in many ways.

You have a great deal of passion about this issue and you spend a lot of time discussing it on here... please use that time to make a real different... which I know you want to.

Women like your ex are the cause of my problems now and my ex is the cause of yours - lets not fight each other, they win.... we need to get together and stop what they have done to us continuing.

The lawyers don't help.... I agree with that too - if people stop fighting each other in court, they don't make a living..... they are not charity workers.

[lostdad]

kittycat68 lost dad, as a representative of FNF i wouldnt expect you to agree.'<br /> <br /> FNF is not a Father's Rights Organisation. It's a parenting one. And I am not a representative' of the charity...just a member. Incidentally - about a third of the members are female. Mothers (both resident and non-resident) as well as aunts, sisters, cousins and friends. I have assisted both mothers and fathers in court and find that it's not a gender issue all the time.

The court is more usually biased towards the resident parent - which is usually Mum'. A court is not going to be criticised for failing to make a decision while by contrast it knows full well it will be damned for making a decision that <span class="italic">may</span> be wrong'. Couples with the adversarial nature of courts it's a waking nightmare: I have lost count of the numbers of cases which are stalled and ongoing because even though there are no welfare concerns or the like but Mum' refuses to agree to any contact progression leaving the judge to say Well - we'll leave it three/six months and maybe things will have improved by then' only to find the only thing that has changed in three/six months is that another three/six months has passed by.

You also say

Its about hard facts and evidence at court as you well know.'<br /> <br /> Really? Hahahaaa!!!!!! See. I was taking your post seriously until you typed this. Christmas has <span class="italic">long</span> gone and you really need to stop reading the jokes out of the crackers. <img loading="lazy" class="inline-flex mumsnet-emoji" alt="Grin" src="https://www.mumsnet.com/assets/images/mumsnet-emojis/base/grin.png"><br /> <br /> Seriously though. <span class="italic">You</span> well know it's all about feelings, beliefs and facts can take a running jump. As you will know too that the Family Courts work on the balance of probabilities' as opposed to Beyond reasonable doubt' and a judge can find a fact based on what he believes is likely' rather than anything inconvenient like cold fact.

You are a solicitor and I claim my £5!

[digerd]

I have never been in your position, but objectively, my opinion is if a child has a raised temperature, it would be dangerous for her health to go anywhere. The same if she is very ill due to any cause.

The child's health is the priority here.

As you have sent her for an hour, I assume she has perked up.

As you are worried about not being believed, can you not next time get proof from your GP? .

[Dadthelion]

'unfortunately courts are not about what is fair and just and reasonable these days or in the childs best interests. Its about hard facts and evidence at court as you well know.'

I would have thought hard facts and evidence are in the best interests of the children.

[kittycat68]

unfortuanately when parents are separated thats what happens you cant just parent and be a parent.

re you asked what evidence when they are young children. this basically means that if its your word against his at court, and you cant just say oh he was drunk the last time he had them etc because he will deny it you have to prove it if you cant then a court is not going to stop the contact, they will see it as you trying to stop contact. despite the fact of it being tue or not.

keep any texts you have and print them out if necessary. Whilst its always best to try to be amicable with the NRP covering your own back at the same time wont hurt.

balia: we are talking about contact not a residence order here.

[HaventGotAStitchToWear]

I sent her for an hour.

He did believe me and was accepting of what I told him.

Do you know what the worst part is for me? The uncertainty.

The 'What should I do?' 'What will the court think?' 'What will the kids think?' 'What will he think?' and trying to chart a best course of action all the time while at the same time looking after kids, house, work... Texts back and forward with him actually put me on edge, as does having to see him.
:-(

[clam]

What was his response to that? Has he accepted that she is unwell, or does he think you're exaggerating? Did your other child go in the end? If so, it does at least show you're not just being awkward. And if your dd is feeling that rough, then she might not create too much about missing out and her brother going.

[HaventGotAStitchToWear]

Thanks clam. Yes he has a history of outright neglect when children sick. Not noticing when they're sick, not attending to their needs and on one occasion being very heavily intoxicated when he had sole responsibility (he denies this of course in his own interests.) Today he has family visiting and his main concern is them. I don't think a busy environment like that is a suitable place for her. She has her head in my lap at the moment...
I have told him I'll let him know if she perks up and then she might go over & see them& receive presents.

All advice welcome.

[clam]

As a general rule, there should be no reason why a hands-on dad shouldn't be able to look after a sick child just as much as the mum.
Key word there is, general. If this bloke has got 'previous' for not stepping up to the mark, then it's not unreasonable for the OP to have reservations.

[HaventGotAStitchToWear]

Now he's asking her to come over just for an hour or two to see a relative.

I think that will be ok and as posts above suggesting that it will b looked upon badly, perhaps I should!

On the other hand, if I let her go over there when v sick, surely that will make it look as though I can trust him to look after her properly.

Honestly though, what the hell is 'evidence' when they're talking about small children!!!

Any suggestions?

Much appreciated!

[balia]

BUT fathers are seem as great guys they work and look after there kids and belong on a pedastal at court, whilst mothers are nasty uncaring women, so be warned

Not in my experience, either, although I haven't been involved with anywhere near as many hearings. Funny how Residence is granted to mothers in something like 93% of cases, what with all this rampant unchecked pro-male bias.

[kittycat68]

lost dad, as a representative of FNF i wouldnt expect you to agree.

but in the 50+ hearings ive been involved with it IS in the main.

unfortunately courts are not about what is fair and just and reasonable these days or in the childs best interests. Its about hard facts and evidence at court as you well know.

[lostdad]

kittycat68 - `BUT fathers are seem as great guys they work and look after there kids and belong on a pedastal at court, whilst mothers are nasty uncaring women, so be warned'

...not in the 30+ court hearings I've been to so far...

[kittycat68]

if its court oderd and you are going through court still be aware thtat the court will not look favourably that you have refused contact.
It will go against you at court and you will be seen to have refused the contact.
Unfortunately, whilst you are concerned, you have to let him try and fail first!!! and you are going to need independant medical assment after contact to say she is worse off after going.
Its totally natural to want to keep her at home with you while she is sick but a court will not see it that way, sorry.
You could go to your GP if they are understanding and ask them if they can give you a letter to say your child is to sick to go?

If there is no court order, you dont have to send them. But again if its going through the court process they will look at it unfavourablely.

It is unfortunate that your ex is a bit of a A*E BUT fathers are seem as great guys they work and look after there kids and belong on a pedastal at court, whilst mothers are nasty uncaring women, so be warned. This may not be what you want to hear Op, but sadly true.

[betterthanever]

if it's court ordered you are unlikely to get action taken against you for one miss. Agree with other posters he should be able to look after an ill child but also agree as the contact is for the child's sake and she would not enjoy it as ill, keep her home. I'd let the sibling go.

[PatriciaHolm]

Problem is, we don't know what you define as a questionable dinner or activity. Slugs and skydiving, yes. McDonald's and bowling, less so...

[HaventGotAStitchToWear]

Got your msg too late PaperLantern
I sent them for their dinner tonight but feel that tomorrow isn't a good idea. Is it legitimate to say that I don't want to send her tomorrow? Their Daddy's choice of dinner tonight was questionable, as was his suggestion for a suitable activity tomorrow.
I think I might like to keep her tomorrow and let her sibling go.
Please advise as I haven't been able to get in contact with my solicitor!
:-(

[PaperLantern]

TBH young children really just want to be at home with mum if their ill. if access is for their benefit they aren't going to enjoy it if they are ill

[PaperLantern]

Send the healthy one or reschedule (reschedule both ideally) if you're arguing he's not capable in court then you rather undermine your argument if you send her now.

Reschedule, or at least offering to reschedule, saves yourself the headache of being accused of trying to undermine access

[sobored2013]

you have to atleaset send the healthy one. he is their father.