Separation and residency

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

My DS has a toddler with his now XP. They were living together in a house for which I had provided the deposit and first month's rent; I also bought a sofa for them, and a few other bits and pieces. They have now split, mostly because they're just too young - DS is only 20, his ex 21.

He moved back in with me and has had his DS here two or three nights a week since the split; there's no set pattern to which nights because he works ever-changing shifts, so it's been to suit both parents. We have plenty of space, and my DGS has his own room and lots of toys.

Ex is now moving out of that house and into a council place, so I asked that she return the deposit to me when she gets it back. I also asked that, as the sofa was bought for them, not her, she pay back the cost of that too. DS has been giving her five times more maintenance (£25 pw rather than £5, he only has a pt job) than he has to, so I suggested that he give the excess £20 to me rather than to her, to pay off the sofa. She's not working and is supported by benefits.

She has gone ballistic and summoned DS to tell him that he'll never see his DS again. She's refusing to take his or my calls, ignores texts and has defriended my entire family on FB. She has previously refused mediation.

So it looks like we have to go down the legal route. DS is named as the child's father and would like to go for 50/50 residency. How likely is he to get this, and what is his first move?

quite likely to get it i'd say!!

he's done nothing wrong.....file a C1 in court. is he entitled to legal aid? as he will find it expensive if not and may want to self rep

families need fathers is a good organisation,he could contact them

in court,contact and maintenence are always separate,so she will have a hard time convincing any judge that she's acted in her ds best interests here!!

Thank you for your reply, ILoveTIFFANY. He earns an average of £110pw so I would hope that Legal Aid is available, but if not I can help out (a bit) that way, or help him self-rep. We are in Scotland, does the C1 apply here too?

@ OldLadyKnowsNothing :- The C1, which I think has been replaced by the C100, may not apply in Scotland, but I don't know for sure. Anyway it's a Children Act Form and section 8 of the Act relating to residency etc only applies in England and Wales, as confirmed by the E + W on the same line as the 8 in this web page. I don't know which Act has the equivalent section in Scotland, but will probably be on the same web site :-www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/41/section/8?view=extent

I think you can print them off. Either that or a quick call to your local court should sort it!!

This sort ofthing worries me! I have 3 boys and worry about their future relationships. The worry never ends does it!

How long has your son been separated and what was the pattern of childcare and work during the relationship?

In Scotland we have our own Childrens Act and court rules and procedures are complicated. There is no Form C1/100 - applications are made by writ, Form G1. Initial writs require to be done in a certain style otherwise they may be returned to be corrected or it may be necessary to amend them later and serve them again. The Ordinary Cause Rules are available on the Scottish Courts website sets out the general rules for applying by writ and there is a chapter dedicated to family actions.

"Craves" set out the orders the court is being asked to make in the exact form the court is being asked to make them.

The "averments" in the "condesendence" that gives notice to the defender of the case they have to meet are a logical sequence of facts including any facts in law required to establish the order.

A plea in law follows on from the averments to justify the making of the orders craved and it is written in a way that the court can give effect.

Anyone earning less than £25k a year maybe eligible for legal aid and because the rules and procedures are complicated I would recommend your son consults a solicitor.

Thank you, again. ILoveTIFFANY, no it never ends, and I never thought I'd be here. But yay, here I am. :( And worse, here is my DS.

STIDW, it's been a few months since they finally split, and mostly it's been amicable. She was at college (as was he, but also working p/t) when she became pregnant. She has not gone back to college, and she has not had a job since giving birth. He's still working p/t (usually about 30 hours pw) for minimum wage, she's a SAHM on benefits. His planned follow-on college course was cancelled, and we live in a "deprived community"; much unemployment, few jobs. Tbh, he's lucky round here with his zero hours contract.

However, since my OP, I've done a fair bit of reearch and, as ILoveTIFFANY says, there is actually a good chance that he'll get 50/50, with mediation, so that's all good. If he can get Resident Parent (I know that means he has to receive the Child Benefit) that would be fantastic, as, from our address, my dgs has a choice of two excellent schools; from hers it's one school that she agrees failed her.

@ STIDW et al :- What has to go in a child care application to the court in Scotland appears to be a lot more detailed than here in England, where a Local Authority can apply for a care order saying "the welfare of the child requires it" and attach a few random docs to the Form allegedly containing valid reasons. Then apply for an adoption order referring back to the reasons allegedly provided in the care order application!

yes he can amke a case for shared residence etc.

re; sofa, deposit - i think you should jsut write it off to be honest. jsut creates more tension. you bought sofa for them - well she will need a sofa for when she has your grandson...

Bloody hell STIDW, your court forms sound like something out of the 16th Century!

Can't advise, OP, as I specialise in English law but good luck.

Melvin - don't hijack the thread, which has nothing to do with care proceedings or adoption.

Start your own thread of conspiracy theories if you want.

@ Resolution et al :- I was referring to the detail of the information in the application to the court in Scotland, as described by STIDW above. Here in England I think the C1 Form referred to above has been replaced by the C100, whether or not that prevents Local Authorities from filing claims (aka craves) which contain no significant details of the grounds of action, eg only "the welfare of the child requires it", as was often the case with the C1, I wouldn't know!

You've still tried to hijack the OPs thread, that has to do with contact and residence, not care proceedings.

@ Resolution et al :- The C1 etc Forms were mentioned near the beginning of the thread but, regardless of whether the proceedings are "private law" residence proceedings or "public law" care proceedings, the same principles apply, ie what is the "quality" of the detail of the reasons for the application provided in the submitted docs?

Thanks all. He has an appointment with a local solicitor in just over a week, we'll take it from there.

Yes, mumblechums, the courts are archaic. Even Lord Gill, one of Scotland's most senior judges, described them as "Victorian" at a meeting of the Law Society of Scotland. Fortunately his recommendations for reforming the civil courts will soon bring about significant change.

OP, Anger is frequently a feature of families breaking down and although it shouldn't be left too long it might be worth waiting a day or so to see if matters calm down and contact is actually withheld. A solicitor can help to defuse the situation and negotiate arrangement without involving the courts. Often anger is a secondary emotion to more primary feelings of hurt, fear and uncertainty particularly if someone is worried about how they are going to manage financially or feel threatened that they will "lose" a child.

It is one thing supporting someone who is going through relationship breakdown but third parties need to take not to care take on the disputes as their own because it is a factor in high conflict separations and the long term detrimental effects upon children are well documented.

Shared residence can be in different proportions, it doesn't have to be 50:50. Generally it's accepted that disrupting a child's sense of security and established bonds isn't in the best interests of the child so changing the status quo is usually an uphill struggle. Parental rights, fairness and equality isn't a courts main concern, the priority is the welfare of children.

Thanks, STIDW, just noticed your latest. The good news is that she has been allowing him access for a few hours each day since Sunday; seems it's easier to redecorate her new home without a toddler underfoot.

DS has a solicitor's appointment next week, which he has told his ex about, and she didn't explode. We chose one who is experienced in family matters and who supports mediation rather than fighting it out. Mediation seems the best way for the both to achieve what they really want, which is what's best for their DS; no-one wants to have to go to Court.

Now DS just has to persuade his ex that this is the right route. Unfortunately I think she doesn't really understand what it means, and her insane vindictive cow of a mother isn't helping any. :(

That's great news. A mediator should help keep Mum on the straight and narrow. It is a good idea to stress the benefits of sharing the responsibility of childcare so that Mum can do chores, socialise etc rather than appear to be demanding. Human nature is such that being demanding, aggressive or blaming the other parent just causing resentment and resistance making life very difficult for everyone concerned for many years to come.

Just to show how quickly things can change; last Thursday he was never to see his DS again, tomorrow I'm babysitting at my house while he helps her clean their old house before handing back the keys on Friday!

Still asking for mediation, though, I think we'd all feel "safer" if they can come to some sort of written agreement. She is a good mum and she does want the best for her DS, I'm sure they can work something out together.

Rollercoasters, eh?