Follicle numbers worry - average numbers / experiences? (IVF/egg freezing)

[StartingAgain33]

I'm an egg freezer, but I guess that's very similar to IVFers!

Had my six day scan today, they could see 15 follicles but only one that was over 1cm. I'm starting to think that's quite bad results for this stage - any idea what's average?

Annoying as the last cycle I was scanned on I had 22 follicles!

[NRW39]

@StartingAgain33
Just seen this thread...
Well done you. I wish I'd had the presence of mind to egg freeze when I was in my 30s. I didn't meet Mr Right until I was 36 going on 37. (We have male factor infertility). We started IVF when I was 38- I've had 5 cycles- 2 failures, 2 miscarriages and the last cycle was cancelled this week, mid cycle due to the Coronavirus. Gutted.

I'm 40 now. We have one frostie waiting for us when our unit opens for business again, so that's currently keeping me going.

I think you're doing an amazing thing for your future- you or your future partner could have fertility issues and freezing your eggs now means your egg age will be forever 35! And your chances are much increased at your age.

I would encouraging all my younger friends and family to consider this option. I wouldn't wish this IVF journey on anymore- it's brutal and so life changing.

Best wishes x

[WarriorSmith]

@startingagain33
Any feedback from your clinic when they want you to do another cycle?
We're not having them tested, we have friends who will be going through the PGD route due to Huntingdons being in one side of the couple - so that's something they will get tested for at Embryo stage before Transfer.
I think you have to have the history of a disease when using the NSH - is it different for privately funded patients?
Have you requested for your embryos to be tested once you get to that stage later on?

[StartingAgain33]

Brilliant. Really hope it works out well for you!

Yes getting married and buying a house are two things to celebrate but also, massively stressful, let alone renovation!! Well done you for getting it all done in one heap. Really hope the ICSI works soon and yes it's very good you have so many eggs to choose from! Do they test them genetically first so you're only using the normal ones?

[WarriorSmith]

@startingagain33
I'm glad you're feeling good, it's such an awful feeling after ER - I felt a whole heap of feelings and just wanted to feel better.

Best to get all the big costs of the way with so when you come to have your home, you don't have any large costs to pay out for.
We bought a house and got married in the space of 6 months - while renovating! Never again 😂 I'm surprised we got down the isle 😂😂 the stress was awful. We delayed our treatment because we knew it would be stressful.
So I doubt blame you for doing it this way around at all. The less stress the better!

ICSI went well, our numbers where really high so I'm hoping I don't need to do ER ever again.

[StartingAgain33]

Yeah I'm feeling fine! Period has come, which definitely feels a bit different - some really strong aches in my ovaries come and go - but mood wise, feeling pretty great actually. Relieved it's over and looking forward to the next.

Cost is definitely prohibitive, and I've had to prioritise this over, say, a deposit for a house for instance (or rather, it's delaying me able to afford one). I also flat-share at 35 which in some ways is not ideal. But I decided that it was better for peace of mind, and it's too easy to get caught up in comparisons of how my life 'should' be. The important thing is I'm making the most of how it is.

How did your ICSI go?

[WarriorSmith]

@startingagain33
Fingers crossed you get the same result over the next couple of rounds you have left. I'm sure your consultant would recommend having a break in between, but tbh, i had 64 eggs and my ovaries were fine on my check up. But everyone is different.... just see how you feel - you know your body better than anyone.

We had ICSI - but they didn't take my husbands sperm from his tests, they just injected the sperm he produced into my eggs with a needle. I think they go into the tests if there is a blockage.

You've done lots of homework and it's best to be prepared, I have seen more articles being released about women having their eggs frozen - I think you're right about the stigma, but maybe the cost of the treatment puts people off too.

I used to dance with a lady who went abroad for her IVF treatment after spending £15k in the UK and no luck.
It's such a physical, mental and financial drain.

I'm quite happy to talk openly about our treatment, but that might change if times get hard for us.

How are you feeling now after your ER?

[StartingAgain33]

Haha, no it's fine @WarriorSmith!! Appreciate the interest.

They'll do ICSI (i think that's what it's called), after thawing my eggs. Some of the eggs won't survive the thaw / fertilise, so I'd like to get at least 30 ideally.

I found this calculator which tells you how many you need to freeze for your age - useful for anyone else doing this process!

www.mdcalc.com/bwh-egg-freezing-counseling-tool-efct

As I'm 35, freezing 30 means I have a 97% chance of one baby, an 86% chance of 2 and a 66% chance of 3. Of course there are never any guarantees, and i'm by nature a planner / super anxious person, so in the event I don't get 30 I might consider doing more than 3 rounds. Hope not though - it's bloody expensive!

The way I see it though - I'm basically being my own egg donor for later on, if I had issues conceiving. I'm also saving money because later, my eggs would be older and worse quality. So I might have to do many more rounds of IVF to get a baby. Whereas now, I'm doing most of IVF - apart from the fertilisation and transfer part, which I'm saving till later. Spreading the cost if you like!

I think it's a really empowering thing to do, and I hope more women consider it! There's a surprisngly small amount of info out there that isn't scare mongering about it, but it's a relatively new thing to do 'social freezing' (ie when you don't need to do it to preserve fertility in the case of having cancer treatment, for instance). I think the stigma will disappear quite soon, as more people learn about it and take advantage.

[WarriorSmith]

@StartingAgain33
Sorry if i seemed ignorant 🙈 id just assumed you was having IVF (they always say you should never assume)!

It's always good to think ahead and forward plan.

So when you find Mr Right, will they thaw an egg and then introduce the sperm like they would in IVF? Or would they pop the egg inside and then you get pregnant the good ol' fashioned way? 😉
Sorry if I'm asking too many questions - tell me to be quiet
X

[StartingAgain33]

Hi @warriorsmith - I'm actually doing egg freezing, not IVF (well, I'll do IVF if I have issues conceiving and when I'm in the right life position). i'm 35, so wanted to have a bit of an insurance policy. Will be doing again twice this year. But yes, understanding is that frozen embryos are often better than fresh in that they give your uterus a chance to recover!

If I get enough eggs I might also freeze some embryos with sperm donor, to prepare for the event I don't find the right man before I want to have a child. But thinking 40 is my cut off so I have some time left.

[WarriorSmith]

@StartingAgain33
That's fab news! 11 is a good number!!
Will you get an update today on the number fertilised?

Why do they want to do the freeze all process? Do you not want a fresh embryo transfer if the clinic will allow it?

After my ER they wanted to wait a week to do another scan to ensure my ovaries had recovered before they'll do the ET.
Maybe they'll want to scan you before you start treatment again?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm still learning new things
Xx

[StartingAgain33]

Hi @WarriorSmith thanks so much for checking in!

ER yesterday - got 11 mature eggs! Very pleased. It's not heaps, but I feel like maybe slightly better than average, and also seems like a good number for quality?

As everyone often says, the retrieval was surprisingly smooth.

I have two more cycles paid for, so going to do those over the coming months. Do you reckon I should leave space in between for my ovaries to recover? There seems to be mixed messages about that. Have just started taking pregnancy vitamins etc so want to give them some time to kick in, as well as my new healthy regime which the egg freezing process has helped me get into (for the first time ever - was helpful to have that deadline and also the daily discipline of the morning and nightly injections)

All in all, a really positive experience! Even if none of those eggs are viable, it does alleviate some anxiety about the future. Especially if I can get a good 30 over three cycles. Fingers crossed. And thank you for your support!

[WarriorSmith]

Any news for you this week? @StartingAgain33 x

[StartingAgain33]

@warriorsmith I've heard that's pretty normal, yes.

Hm, my boobs are now really sore and nipples different to usual.... something is definitely happening. Come on eggies, grow!

[WarriorSmith]

@spacegirl123
I'm feeling much better and trying to keep my fluids up, my husband is always on at me to drink more.

@startingagain33
I wasn't uncomfortable when I was injecting, only after EG. My boobs were so tender though, is that normal?
Good luck next week 🤞🏼 x

[spacegirl123]

@WarriorSmith glad you're feeling better, drink loads of water and as @StartingAgain33 says, if you suddenly feel worse, call your clinic!

@StartingAgain33 good luck for next week xx try not to stress too much xx

[StartingAgain33]

@WarriorSmith Wow, i'm surprised you didn't burst - that's incredible!!

Yes sounds very likely you have OHSS! If you do feel any worse definitely call the clinic!

Went for a scan this morning - there's one annoying dominant follicle which is about 16mm I think, a couple at 13mm and then maybe 7 others that are above 10mm. Not hopeful they'll get many next week.... going in for another scan on Monday.

[WarriorSmith]

@spacegirl123
I'm due in for another scan on Thursday next week. I'm feeling better as each day passes thankfully.
Thank you, I'm shocked as to how many there are! X

[spacegirl123]

(PS congrats on all the embryos!)

[spacegirl123]

@WarriorSmith have they scanned you for possible OHSS?! No wonder you're sore you poor thing!

[WarriorSmith]

I went for my EC yesterday and ended up with 64 eggs being taken 😱
The clinic called this morning and confirmed 34 fertilised using ICSI

I'm in extreme discomfort and don't actually know how to numb the aches and pains in my belly 😭

Does anyone have any tips please?

[StartingAgain33]

Thank you!!! This is super helpful. Amazing stats on your side!

[SirChompsAlot]

@StartingAgain33

No problem 😊
Live birth rates (which is ultimately all that matters here) vs number of eggs collected plateaus at ~15. That in itself suggests that when there are more quality/maturity might be compromised.

You hear lots and lots of people on the FB groups collecting 25+ (and subsequently being treated for OHSS). E.g: they collect 34 eggs, 24 are mature, 12 fertilise normally, 6 make it to day 3 and they end up with 3-4 day5 blastocysts 🤷‍♀️

The more you have the less likely it is that you’ll manage to get them to batch into the short window of optimum follicle size at trigger and therefore end up with much fewer that are actually mature anyway.

I had 4 follicles (severe DOR), 3 responded to stims, 3 mature eggs collected, 2 fertilised normally, 2 made it to day 5 blast.
I had my positive beta test yesterday!

Focus on quality over quantity 💖 x

[spacegirl123]

Starting again I had 11 follicles in total in my last cycle (5 one side six the other), ended up 9 eggs retrieved, all fertilised and 6 good grade blastos. Someone else said high numbers don't equal good quality, and can lead to OHSS, I've had it you don't want it!!!

[physicskate]

Higher numbers increase the risk of ohss, which in its most extreme, is a medical emergency.

[StartingAgain33]

@Sirchompsalot, thank you! That's such a relief to hear. I've been talking to someone who just finished on her egg freezing cycle and she got 22 - from one ovary, as the other one wasn't working! So compared to that it felt very low.

Do you think that sometimes the higher numbers mean lower quality? Not sure if there's been any studies done on that?