Bleeding and periods after unsuccessful IVF attempt

[GlummyMummy]

I have just been through a failed 2nd attempt at IVF, following a successful attempt in 2013 (we have a nearly two year old daughter.)

This time round I had my embryo transfer last Sunday but on Friday night my period started and I've been bleeding very heavily since. We have sadly accepted the fact that it hasn't worked :-( Clinic are still making me test next Sunday and told me to keep up the progesterone gel.

I have to say I was really surprised that my period came while still on the crinone gel, and particularly that it came so soon (6 days after ET) Will need to ask doctors why this might have been, anyone else had a heavy bleed so early in two week wait?

I just wondered if people who've been through this before could tell me how long they bled for and then when their period came the following month? Hard to know how soon things will get back to "normal".

[Buttercup1228]

Hello.anyone experienced dropping of hcg after 2 fet in 14 days? After that how many days before having bleeding?

[GlummyMummy]

my embryo was the opposite, embryologist reckoned it had fertilised early but that they had missed it when they checked in the morning. I was bemused, I mean how can you fail to notice that it's split into two?!?!?!?!?

17 eggs is a great result for someone with low AMH - as you say, a mystery for your doctors!

Sounds like your body has been through the ringer one way or another!

[bananafish81]

glummy believe it or not that happened to a girl I know! She had 6 eggs and was told NONE had fertilised. Well apparently they left them and checked the next day and lo and behold two were dividing?! Both made it to day 5, both were put back and she is now pregnant (awaiting scan to see if one or both took!)

I've only had one IVF cycle preceding this one, and it was a bit of an odd one as we tried to go straight into a second cycle before I'd got my period (scan showed I had ovulated as normal though) - in an attempt to try long protocol to better control my lining. Long protocol just gives the Dr more control so he could add the oestrogen into the mix earlier without it affecting the follicle growth

Unfortunately I failed to down regulate - I bloody ovulated while injecting buserelin. So in the space of 7 weeks I ovulated twice but didn't have a bleed.

(we aborted the attempt at long protocol and reverted to short once we'd quieted the ovaries with a couple of weeks on the pill)

However as I had ovulated as normal straight after the cycle I think if we hadn't started buggering around with trying to go straight into another cycle, things would have been totally normal

(it was the right decision to go again so quickly as my sleepy low AMH ovaries were still slightly stimulated from the prev cycle, so we reckoned we could give them a jump start by cycling again so soon. Didnt quite work out on the first attempt but second pass was a corker. 17 eggs vs 6 eggs!)

[GlummyMummy]

sounds like you have an excellent consultant which really does help!!!!

I think my problem this time has been a hormonal one, hence the reason I bled so early after ET..either that or there was something wrong with the embryo. As I mentioned to another poster earlier in the thread, the embryologist missed the signs of fertilisation with this one, so I have my suspicions that it might have been dodgy!

In other cycles you've had bananafish, what has been the situation with your periods afterwards?

[bananafish81]

I did all that too!! Figured anything that said it would help lining was a good idea - although I tried all of them in my first cycle and the only thing that worked was HRT tablets 3 times a day. I had a bloody microwave wheat bag basically permanently strapped to my belly up until transfer day.

The very sad outcome to my cycle had nothing to do with the lining. After all the issues my consultant was quite concerned whether it would hold up or not because it had been very unpredictable. At the 7 week scan he was grinning like a loon because the endometrium looked superb. I had to keep taking the oestrogen tablets until 10 weeks. Ironically I also ended up stopping the progesterone fanjo bullets the same day, but we know why that was

[GlummyMummy]

I was never offered that or oestrogen, just tried some natural things myself that may or may not have helped - pomegranate juice, brazil nuts and pineapple. Plus lots of hot water bottles prior to ET and lots of walks!

No wonder I've been bleeding for a week.....it's all that pom juice!

[bananafish81]

Thanks glummy

It is really, really shit!

My consultant flicked some thing on the scanning doodah when I had a date with dildocam to check the uterine artery blood flow. They use it for pregnant women too I believe

We only really looked because I was having lining issues in all my natural and stimulated cycles - it wasn't my blood flow, but I responded v well to the oestrogen tablets. If the issue is blood flow there's loads of stuff that can help improve that.

[GlummyMummy]

bananafish - meant to say I was so sorry to hear about your loss, that's really tough :-(

What's the doppler to check uterine blood flow? I definitely didn't have that or I'd have remembered! My lining was never an issue on my first round of ivf, so it's either deteriorated drastically in 3 years, or this short protocol has affected my lining.

[GlummyMummy]

really pleased to hear your good news Honeybee!

I'm still bleeding, after nearly a week now! think these pessaries are just keeping the bleeding going to be honest. Have an appointment next month to review things so hopefully they will have some ideas as to what went wrong and suggestions for next time if we decide to go down that route. It's so costly!!!!! And logistically hard with having a little one already (in terms of childcare, resting during treatment etc)

Just hard to know when I might ovulate (have heard you can be more fertile after failed ivf) and what might happen with next month's period.

Good luck Everhopeful, fingers crossed for you!

[Everhopeful76]

Congratulations honeybee, great news!!
Thank you banana-
I ve already contacted the serum clinic and they ve responded. Your not wrong about costs, 2 cycles for price of 1 comparing to my current clinic. Back up plan potentially in place.
I may go to crgh open evening to get a feel also if need to. I know the Czech Republic clinics wouldn't treat me because of lack of partner. Cool, feel a bit happier.
It's weird that my body knows what's happened to embryo before my mind but am standing firm and not testing x

[Honeybee79]

Thanks Banana. I don't know what to do with myself!! Keep pacing round the room and then starting blankly back at my work!

[bananafish81]

Amazing news honey!!

[Honeybee79]

Thanks. Am in shock. Utterly in shock. Just hope it sticks.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

Amazing news

Manu congrats :)

[Honeybee79]

OMFG the clinic just called - my blood test came back positive. Am shaking!

[Honeybee79]

Thanks. Waiting.

I know a couple of people who had really positive experiences at Serum and yes, much cheaper.

[Blondeshavemorefun]

Yes a mock is to check they can get the catheter up you easily and no problems in inserting spectulam (sp) and opening cervix etc

Basically like a smear

As I said clinic where I had 1&2 didn't do it

Clinic 3&4 discussed it on the phone and said would be done at 1st consultation to make sure all was ok

I thought it was a good idea tbh. I have quite a narrow odd shaped cervix due to scarring from biopsys from cancerous cells - smears are always uncomfortable but ok iyswim - tho they didn't know this

Thinking back 1&2 ec was soooooooo painful - I was screaming and DF in room next door was thinking what the hell was happening :( I had max amount of drugs :(

3 ok and 4 was fet

I think as they checked me first on no 3 they knew how my cervix was shaped so that there no was pain at ec and they got more eggs 11 and 9 fertilized and 7 got to day 5

Yes if they are good at their jobs then they should be able to insert it right - but all cervixs are different and with what is at stake I think all clinics should do a mock transfer at consultation so no hidden surprises

As I said mine was free but lister charge £200

Any one else have a mock transfer? I might start a new post to enquire

[bananafish81]

Oh and a LOT of women on FF go abroad for natural or mild cycle as it's sooo much cheaper, even with flights

Reprofit and Gennet in Czech Republic, and Serum in Greece are both v popular on FF

[bananafish81]

I'm pretty sure that CRGH do natural modified

I think Lister may do

Even the mighty ARGC do natural cycle if they won't let you cycle with them because of high FSH

Might be worth asking about estrogen priming to prevent early recruitment of a lead follicle, to artificially suppress any FSH rising in the luteal phase of the preceding cycle?

Of course I hope this one is the golden egg and you won't need to do this!

[Everhopeful76]

Banana - All makes sense to me, it remains to be seen if the sledgehammer approach has worked- will know v v soon. My AMH was 1.2 when I first had the test done, but at that point so many follicles were obscured by endo. Create couldn't be certain but felt I had just 2 follicles on both sides. Then on later scans, with a different Consultant and my NHS endo gynaecologist (and following a lap also) they were showing 1 or 2 more follicles overall, without any stimulating drugs- have no idea why that was but seemed positive,until I started to get dermoid cysts on right obscuring them again. So my ovaries... nightmare, my womb has always shown up as more hospitable. So now am this far, am just hoping, hoping and hoping some more.

However what was interesting was that despite all the supplements I took for almost 4 months......CoQ10, DHEA, vitamin D, pre pregnancy multi vit, extra folic acid (had dire reserves of vit d beforehand) and had acupuncture (which was having weekly whilst I was having treatment) I still had a clear lead follicle right from the off- around 20mm at EC. I just had it stuck in my head that that was the one, so even tho they said we might not get a single egg, my hopes were pinned on this one and then I got 2. The others were obviously never going to win the race, and have been worried that the menopur did cause these mini endometrial cysts I suddenly developed.

So if I need another shot, I might try the natural modified route (what other clinics beside Create offer this - anyone know!?) but would probably get my AMH re done first, and let my thoughts flow about donor embryos or eggs also. I can really only afford this a couple more times at most.

I guess I should stay positive on this attempt first as still in game, but so hard.

[bananafish81]

Honey a mock transfer is exactly what it sounds like - it's a practice run so the Dr can basically familiarise themselves with your cervix and uterine shape so the actual transfer goes smoothly and they can site the catheter correctly

My consultant didn't do them as tbh he said if you were experienced enough you should be able to work it out on the day!

My AMH was tested three times in three different months, and came back as 1.5 each time

Different labs too - so unlikely to have been a lab error!

I also had FSH of 17.6 in July, although it bounced down to 9.5 the following month - you're only considered as good as your worst FSH so I was essentially in borderline premature ovarian failure

Ironically when I was 28, in 2010, I was diagnosed as having PCOS - with an antral follicle count of 42

Then 5 years later, in 2015 at the age of 33, we discovered the PCOS had gone with all my eggs. My FSH and AMH were horrendous, and my AFC was just 5

Before my second cycle, I had an antral follicle count of 10 at baseline, but managed to get 17 eggs - all mature

I am convinced the DHEA made a difference, as the quality was remarkably different too

I am having a genetic test on Sat to see if the reason my PCOS transitioned into a state of severely diminished ovarian reserve is to do with a particular genetic marker, as I'm interested to know WHY my eggs (seemed to have) all disappeared

I also find it fascinating how a mild short protocol can be beneficial to both very high responders (PCOS) and very poor responders (low AMH)!

[Honeybee79]

What is a mock embryo transfer?!

That's fine everhopeful, it's the name of the game, so many mixed reviews of so many different clinics! Had my blood test at Create this morning and now waiting for the call later today . . . . . God, it's bloody stressful, isn't it?! Really well done on your weight loss - I also lost 3 stone and so glad that I did it before embarking on this IVF rollercoaster.

I can see the rationale for natural ivf for low amh . . . . and I thought I got the rationale for mild ivf for women like me with PCOS . . . until it all went a bit tits up and I couldn't have a fresh transfer!

Banana - it does sound to me like there might have been a lab error if you got 17 eggs! I got 17 eggs and have PCOS and was overstimulated!!

[bananafish81]

Everhopeful I'm a low AMH-er who did really well on high stims, but a LOT of women on my low AMH/high FSH cycle buddies board on Fertility Friends do much much better on mild or natural modified

The thinking is that if you're only going to get a couple of eggs with max stims, you may well get better results and better quality (especially, I am told, amongst older women with more fragile eggs) with a light tap rather than a sledgehammer

I found it counterintuitive that surely if you don't respond to a megaphone, you're not going to respond to a whisper? But many many women do, and seem to get better quality that way

As I say, I personally did very well on high stims, despite my low AMH and high FSH (although I am a bit of a freak as the embryologists all asked if my AMH could have been a lab error, as women with almost undetectable AMH of 1.5 are not supposed to get 17 eggs)

However I planned to try natural or mild if I didn't get anywhere with high stims - as you're by definition getting fewer eggs you in theory need more cycles, but that's the case if you're only going to get a few eggs anyway. I personally would have tried a single cycle to see how I got on before trying a multi cycle package, if I'd ended up going down the mild/natural route

[Everhopeful76]

A mock embryo transfer? Do they do this to check there is no issue with your cervix before trying for real.. £200 is very steep for a mock smear test type procedure. Yikes.

Best of luck honeybee. I am sorry what I said higher up the thread seemed negative, I just had a bad experience with Create when I first started this whole process. I am at the BCRM (in Bristol) but am a satellite patient of the lead Consultant (who has her private clinic as well as working in NHS). Hence my comments about 1 size fits all, am paying the price tag (mostly because the NHS wouldn't treat me as was single,crap AMH, BMI over what it should have been- athough lost3 stone since that pt and endo) so I suppose I just feel am possibly not getting any better service,but cant fault the staff,they were excellent. Suppose I just felt I d get more support in the 2ww by being offered extra blood tests incase progesterone levels were wrong etc given my unique circumstances.If it fails,I guess I can consider another clinic. Don't live in Bristol anymore, so would be looking in the Midlands or London. Create offer a fertility MOT at satellite clinic in Bristol, that's why I was aware of them in the first place

However as Banana (Hi Banana) articulates the interesting USP they have, in terms of mild cycles for low AMH'ers. There is indeed nothing mild about them from other posters, but they were going to give me the stimulated cycle of 150iu gonal-f, on a natural stimulated cycle but they were definitely quite aggressive with trying to get me to buy 3 cycles, saying I had an 8.5% success rate with one . Given my lowish response to 450 iu stimms recently, I don't think I would have got very far at all,so think I made the right choice...time will tell. Even with the high dose, my body naturally selected 1 follicle, with 2 trailing behind and the others were either too small or had been infected by tiny endo cysts on the left ovary. This produced my 2 eggs, 2 embryos and now I wait a few more days on the result. I was on long protocol which I was worried about, although not in terms of lining (had 11.5mm 2 days before EC altho admittedly was worried as they didn't recheck) Hard to get everything right I guess, because everyone's body response is different

[bananafish81]

Good luck honey