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Jersey Murder Enquiry 'unlikely'

42 replies

Janos · 31/07/2008 11:15

Police have found the remains of five children , aged between 4-11, at Haut Garenne.

And it looks like no-one will ever be charged with their murder. and

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7534350.stm

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donovan · 04/08/2008 20:37

WHY! WHY! WHY!
This stinks.

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Kevlarhead · 04/08/2008 20:04

"The Guardian story had a quote from a local who didn't want to be named saying it was all a storm in a tea-cup... so clearly there are people who want it all hushed up."

The follow up question should have been "So how many kids have you personally raped and murdered then?" Anyone calling this a 'storm in a teacup' is obviously up to their necks in it.

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Janos · 03/08/2008 16:11

How did the original story break again? I don't remember the details.

I think unfortunately there are a lot of people who want this 'minimised'.

There must be otherwise surely it would come out before now?

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edam · 02/08/2008 14:48

Of course. The worrying thing is a lot of the people who want it hushed up are in positions of authority where they can make sure it is - if it weren't for Lenny Harper going to the media. They've certainly hushed up allegations in the past and obstructed investigations, by all accounts.

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georgesdinosaur · 02/08/2008 13:56

there seems to be no doubt that there are people who want it hushed up but that doesnt mean everyone feels that way.

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edam · 02/08/2008 09:19

The Guardian story had a quote from a local who didn't want to be named saying it was all a storm in a tea-cup... so clearly there are people who want it all hushed up.

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georgesdinosaur · 02/08/2008 09:04

It saddens me that the impression people are getting of Jersey is one of an small place where people will only try to protect themselves, not to do the best for those who live here. Many people working in Jersey are 'outsiders' anway, myself included. However, if bringing in people from 'outside' is what is normally done by other police forces, local authorities etc, then maybe it is the best way forward; there is no doubt that something needs to be done about this very sad situation. It was interesting to read that the bones found may date back to 1650s so i guess they have to tread carefully and maybe deal with the abuse side separately.

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TwoIfBySea · 01/08/2008 22:03

As Jersey is such a small place would it not be better to bring in "outsiders" to run the investigation.

Remember the Belgian paedophile ring that included high up judges etc., they involved themselves in cases to protect their own skins.

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sfxmum · 01/08/2008 12:45

although there are wonderful responsible people working in child protection, there are still a few who don't care and you only have to be around some services to work out how easy it is for records to go missing or not be done at all

sad but true
also years after the Climbie report many of the recommendations are not in place mostly through very poor practice. there was a repost on File on 4 (R4) about all this a few months back

really shocking and with tragic consequences

I was around when an abuse case happened to someone in care (not a child) it was shocking to see how at first the staff reporting where made to feel like criminals and were so badly let down, it was resolved but with outside intervention due to the persistence of good staff members.

later the courts buggered it up but that is another story

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Upwind · 01/08/2008 12:38

This story is horrific because there is no way it could have been concealed for so long without lots of people turning a blind eye.

I've always been able to accept that there are a few psychos out there. But how many people in children's services must have known something was up and did nothing? How can they not have records of which children were sent there from the UK?

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WinkyWinkola · 01/08/2008 12:32

Yes, on Radio 4, I think it was Lenny Harper saying that many people "high up" in Jersey were attacking the investigation, trying to disrupt and discredit it.

Wonder why?

And when the police started searching in some old WWII bunkers, they only did that because they said they'd had so many people come forward with claims of being abused there, they'd had to look into it. Why wouldn't just one person coming forward be enough?

I wonder if the truth will ever out.

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georgesdinosaur · 31/07/2008 20:48

I agree, Edam, from what I have read this seems to be the case (you are very knowledgeable on this, are you from Jersey?!?).
But I don't think it was just because he was NOT from Jersey that he was listened to and managed to get the investigation going.

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edam · 31/07/2008 20:40

Thing is, georges, when people have tried to raise this issue in the past on Jersey, they have been shut up in no uncertain terms. People have been threatened, the authorities have refused to take them seriously... when news of this latest investigation broke, the top bods in Jersey were all over the place smearing the very few people speaking out and denying that anything bad could have possibly happened.

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expatinscotland · 31/07/2008 20:33

Poor souls! So trapped and isolated and defenseless and terrified.

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georgesdinosaur · 31/07/2008 20:31

sorry, didn't mean to double post!

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georgesdinosaur · 31/07/2008 20:30

I agree that it is very sad and shocking that these chldren have gone missing with no one recording it, never mind investigating it at the time. It's scary that it could have happened so long ago and people may not be brought to justice.
However, I am sure it would have come out despite LH not being from Jersey; to my knowledge,it was all originally started by someone else, he just happened to be the deputy chief of police put in charge of dealing with it and it came out as things do.
I didn't realise that not all the children in the home were from Jersey.

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georgesdinosaur · 31/07/2008 20:30

I agree that it is very sad and shocking that these chldren have gone missing with no one recording it, never mind investigating it at the time. It's scary that it could have happened so long ago and people may not be brought to justice.
However, I am sure it would have come out despite LH not being from Jersey; to my knowledge,it was all originally started by someone else, he just happened to be the deputy chief of police put in charge of dealing with it and it came out as things do.
I didn't realise that not all the children in the home were not from Jersey.

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Janos · 31/07/2008 19:36

That should be me, not we btw.

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Janos · 31/07/2008 19:36

Apart from compassion of the victims of this hideous trauma my main feeling is one of sheer anger that yet again, people will just get away with these hideous crimes.

I really, really want there to be some form of prosecution.

Those people who went through such abuse deserve an acknowledgement and an apology.

Bet you you they don't bloody well get it.

Mind you, I remember similar cases with childrens homes in Scotland. There was one really sadistic nun...can't remember who. She basically got let off with a slap on the wrist despite inflicting years of torture on vulnerable children.

The establishment in this country is so loathsome (sp)?. It makes we want to spit.

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edam · 31/07/2008 13:19

The police chief didn't say there would be no prosecutions, just not enough evidence to bring a murder charge. Sadly.

He's due to retire soon - what's the betting the Jersey establishment try to shut the whole thing down?

And John Hemmings, has, of course, been demonised by social workers for daring to speak out about poor practice... thank God he hasn't let the smears put him off.

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Earlybird · 31/07/2008 13:18

Why is a murder enquiry unlikely?

Am not in the UK, so don't understand why this would be so.

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edam · 31/07/2008 13:17

What that article doesn't mention (presumably it hadn't happened when it was written) is that Hodge went on to belittle and make allegations against a man who had suffered abuse during his time in HER children's homes. And tried to tell journalists to ignore him because he was 'very disturbed'. The sheer arrogance of the woman! Thank Christ she was outed - although she didn't bother to resign, of course.

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bundle · 31/07/2008 13:16

"Liberal Democrat MP John Hemming told BBC Radio Four's Today programme he would be speaking to a government minister later on Thursday about the issue of the rule of law in Jersey.

In February Mr Hemming signed an early day motion in Parliament that said there was a lack of confidence in the ability of the island's authorities to deal with the abuse allegations.

"What is clear is that there are five cases where there is sufficient evidence to prosecute but the prosecution has been shut down in some form or other," Mr Hemming told Today. "

so - they could overrule the jurisdiction (Jersey not part of UK) and insist on prosecutions, even if they don't have enough solid evidence re: murder.

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suedonim · 31/07/2008 13:12

My jaw dropped when I read this story on BBC earlier today. Why no enquiry? It's not so long ago, the perpetrators could still be alive. How the survivors of the abuse must be feeling today, god-only knows.

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Upwind · 31/07/2008 13:05

I've just read about the Hodge/Islington scandal here:
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article1148482.ece

Unbelievable that despicable woman was made minister for children.

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