This is the kind of article that really has me spitting feathers

[emkana]

how awful not to be able to afford school fees and foreign holidays

"Let's assume the middle class family has a combined income of £100000" - who are these people?

grrr

[3andnomore]

HUnker...lol...o.k., maybe not an ideal solution then ;)
My point was, that a lot of people can't live in the exact area they would like too, sadly with the way houseprices are somehting gotta give...and in the end you have to decide what is important to you on the budget you have! If you want the house in a certain area, then you possibly can't afford the Holidays...etc....life innit!
I mean we live in an ex council estate in a crappy town....but, as late first time buyers with one income and 3 Kids, space was more important then ther things..to us, anyway!
There is always the option to commute...no one says you got to move to the other side of the country, but maybe a cheaper area...
Anyway...in the end, you ain't complaining...but this woman was...

[hunkermunker]

GDG, I couldn't, in good conscience, move the boys away from their grandparents - I just wouldn't be happy to do it. They see them regularly and they adore them.

What you say makes sense though - and I've always been interested in living elsewhere, so one day, maybe. We're hoping that working hard now will mean we can afford to live in a much bigger house when we do finally move out of London.

[3andnomore]

Oh, and hunker good luck then for that new house

[Gobbledigook]

Oh Hunker - no doubt about it. I can understand re grandparents and boys. For me not such an issue - we were moving away from dh's parents but right into the pocket of mine

Mind you, they did bugger off to The Lakes a couple of years later! What use is that to me, I ask you?!

Now I've got NO on-hand babysitters!!

[hunkermunker]

We can't afford the childcare that we'd need in order to commute to our current jobs (my parents and DH's parents have the boys while we are at work - I'm here now on my lunch break!) - so I'd have to stay home with the boys (we earn similar amounts, Xenia, so yes, it would be me who stayed home ). Then, on just DH's salary and living near enough for him to get to work, we'd still not be able to afford a house like we're buying further into town, with childcare provided by grandparents.

I've done the figures over and over - can you tell?!

[hunkermunker]

3andnomore - thank you! I dreamt we got it last night - and was v disappointed when I woke up this morning! There's SO little on the market atm that I know we'll have a tough job getting this house and who knows when something similar will come up?!

GDG - blardy JT, moving like that - honestly!

[edam]

I also have no sympathy for her but do recognise the issue about middle class lifestyles now being unaffordable. My parents bought a four bedroom detached house when they were 26. I can only dream of affording one and I'm 38! Although I do live in the South East, even if I moved back to Yorkshire, I'm sure I couldn't afford that house in that village.

I am not expecting any sympathy on this because compared to a lot of people I'm bloody lucky, having a house at all, esp. one in a good area.

[hunkermunker]

Oh, yes, just in case anyone was in any doubt, I'm not after sympathy (just good luck vibes, please!).

[edam]

Oh, and that was on one salary btw, and my dad was a junior manager at the time so only on the starting rungs of his career.

[hunkermunker]

I think there being more women at work means there's less dosh for the men, obviously

[tribpot]

Surely Waitrose is a basic human right?! She needs to get her kids out to work as chimney sweeps, then she'd be able to afford to shop.

[Tamum]

I agree with Aloha about the way things have changed- it's amazing when I think back, I grew up in a succession of 4 or 5 bedroom detached houses with big gardens. My parents were both teachers in state primaries who most certainly never had money from their families. It's unthinkable now, but their houses cost around the £6000 to £7000 mark. House prices had changed beyond all recognition even by the end of the 1970s, I think.

[3andnomore]

Hey, Hunker...another simplistic idea (feeling silly right now, sorry)...maybe have no Kids...I know it would make our life so much easier....lol...if I could work full time and would have worked full time for the past 10 years....I would thingk we would be on a combined income of 50-60K before taxes...with no Kids and less needs of a bigger house...bliss, eh...saying that...nah, I wouldn't NOT want to have my Kids! They are worth it

[colditz]

Can I raise another, related, point?

The middle classes may be poorer, relatively. But the working classes are better off for food and clothing. The price of a bag of chips has hardly risen at all. Ditto the price of an average 'working class' super market shop (you know, red lable tea and white granulated, instead of darjeeling and organic demerara)

So perhaps what she is complaining about is not that there is less wealth to go around, more that the people who need it more are, at the moment, getting more of it than they were.

No, a vicar's child wouldn't typically go to public school now. But neither would we pull our 12 year old daughter out of school because we have to have the money from her maid's job to buy food for the younger children.

[hunkermunker]

Tamum, what a grand initial capital you have there, my love!

[hunkermunker]

3andnomore, bit hard to shove 'em back now though [wince]

Colditz, yes, the working classes have never had it so good [ponce]

[Tamum]

I know humker, dead posh me (It's Miaou's fault, but I rather like it!)

[Tamum]

hunker, sorry!

[taylormama]

she and Rosie Boycott are probably best mates .... only own 17 houses between them and go on just 4 foreign holidays per year, and they can't afford to upgrade the nanny's 4 x 4 this year - aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

[hunkermunker]

Yes, I saw on Miaou's thread - it's unnerving me, actually, but I'll get over it - probably

[colditz]

She reminds me very much of Marie Antionette.

[lulumama]

[3andnomore]

yeah ouch...was hard enough to get them out of there when they were only tiny...my es is 10...lol....just imagine trying that...[wince for sure emoticon]

[MadamePlatypus]

I agree that it was more common to have 'staff' about 50 years ago, but people didn't have washing machines, tumble driers, hoovers that worked properly, dish washers etc. etc.

The cost of buying a house has changed greatly. My parents live in the same area they moved into 30 years ago based on my dad's salary as a middle manager (the equivalent of maybe 40K now?). Now they would need to raise £700K to buy a similar house. However, we had one TV, one record player, one car and if we went abroad we went there on the ferry and camped. I certainly never flew with them or stayed in a hotel.

I can winge about "not being able to buy a house in the 'London' village where I grew up, ha, ha, ha,", but I think I have a more expensive lifestyle than they did in terms of travel and buying gadgets like ipods. Equally, I benefit from the increase in value of their house, whether that be by inheriting it or using its value to contribute to their care should they need it.

Meanwhile, I didn't get the impression that Rachel Johnstone had been forced to send her (I think 4?) children to gasp! a state school.

RJ needs to wake up and find out what it really means to be poor in Britain in 2007 and it has nothing to do with Waitrose.