Pauline Cafferkey could be struck off

[vanillaelderberry]

here

I really sympathise with her. Must be horrendously stressful.

[hackmum]

I really hope some of the people on here who made spiteful, judgemental comments have the decency to feel ashamed.

[Inkanta]

Yes glad common sense prevailed.

[vanillaelderberry]

Good :)

[JudyCoolibar]

Glad to see she's been cleared - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-37364497

[gonzo155]

It wasn't unknown for Ebola to stay in the body for a long time. Marbug - which is the same family as Ebola was discovered to do this in the 60s. If I remember correctly a guy infected his wife, after he'd recovered, through sex.

Similar transmission and the presence of EBV in fluids after recovery has also be documented prior to the most recent outbreak, and so it was known that transmission and reinfection was possible.

It's possible that Pauline Cafferkey didn't realise this and/or this hadn't been made to clear her by her doctors.

[BreakWindandFire]

Actually here's an article on Ian Crozier, who was infected despite taking every possible precaution.

[BreakWindandFire]

She would still have been urged caution when displaying symptoms, even if return of infection was thought to be rare

It was thought to be impossible rather than rare. She's was the second documented case of it in the world and the first full 'relapse'.

The first was another medic, Dr Ian Crozier. He suffered long-term illness after his infection, then months after testing ebola-free had a severe eye inflamation which was ebola-virus related. This was deemed a complication rather than relapse.

[BillSykesDog]

She would still have been urged caution when displaying symptoms, even if return of infection was thought to be rare.

It's not like she behaved rashly just once either. She somehow contracted the illness, possibly by not following safety procedures. Then she got on a plane while displaying symptoms and possibly acted to conceal them, then she went to a school while ill. A non-essential trip to an environment where infection can be easily spread and to vulnerable people.

It's all very well saying 'Oh but I feel sorry for her', but if all nurses took such a slapdash approach to infection control the NHS would be fucked within a week. And given the seriousness of the infection she had her behaviour is massively questionable. If she behaves like this when she had Ebola how do you think she behaves when she has a cold or an upset stomach? They might not be as dramatic but they can still kill vulnerable patients. And I would feel just as sorry for them even though they might not have such a dramatic story.

[theconstantinoplegardener]

Ebola was an emerging disease with many unknowns. Pauline was not the only Western HCP to get Ebola - remember Will Pooley? And they are just the British ones - quite a few others got it too. Do you think they were all cavalier with their safety precautions? I think it's grossly unfair to then make aspersions about her killing patients in the UK with Norovirus! As for going into school just as Ebola was flaring up again - at that time, nobody even realised it was possible for Ebola to return so how was she supposed to know it was anything more than a cold? I am really surprised at the attitude in some of these posts.

[BillSykesDog]

Isn't there a big question mark about how she got infected in the first place anyway? I understood that the western HCP using the correct procedures and equipment had about zero chance of contracting Ebola so in all likelihood she had at some point not adhered to them. Ditto the temperature, she's a nurse ffs, if she'd taken paracetamol for period pains then there were questions about her temperature she would have known she should have declared it. And yes, she should have known better than to go to a school, of all places, when feeling unwell.

There just seems to be a general attitude coming from her over and over again that she thinks it's okay to take risks with a 'it'll be okay, nothing will happen' attitude. It's really not acceptable for a HCP to take that attitude. Okay, maybe nobody died this time, but you have to wonder, before she went to Africa, how many vulnerable patients died from norovirus or respiratory infections she brought into hospital because she thought it would be okay and nothing would happen and she didn't have to bother with hygiene procedures or sickness policies.

tired, I really don't know what you're projecting onto this, but I don't think NHS bullying has anything to do with this case.

[ReallyTired]

I googled various cases of nurses being struck off. It's either for a catalogue of spectacular incompetence over a period of months or one really serious life threatening mistake. Striking a nurse off is not done likely.

I think it's disportionate to strike off Pauline as no one caught Ebola from any possible mistake made by her. A warning would be more appriopiate IF she is guilty.

[ReallyTired]

I think you need to compare her other people who have been struck of the register. Usually people are stuck off when something had BADLY gone wrong.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-36978810

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/20/midwife-struck-off-for-misconduct-after-deaths-of-two-babies

There is usually evidence of incompetence that can't be easily recified by training.

[theconstantinoplegardener]

To those saying that she could have infected other people by allegedly failing to declare that she'd taken paracetamol, the fact is she didn't infect anybody! Surely the consequences of her actions, rather than.potential consequences, must count for something? You would not expect the same punishment if you were driving at 35mph in a 30mph zone, as you would get if you were driving at 35mph and killed somebody.

[ReallyTired]

We don't know why she took the paracetamol. What if she took the paracetamol for period pain? What it maybe shows if that people working with dangerous diseases need to formally document any medication they take, even on that day off.

Any the screening done by public health England was a farce. You need more than four nurses for a plane flying 300 people in from an Ebola stricken country.

[recall]

Well if the allegations are true - she failed to tell PHE staff who took her temperature that she had recently taken paracetamol - then she did knowingly cover up the fact that she may have had a pyrexia, and the screening process (regarding this particular issue) was not at fault. The very fact that she felt the need to take paracetamol proves that she was feeling unwell in some way, pyrexia or not. For someone in her position, fucking great alarm bells should have been ringing.

[BreakWindandFire]

I doubt she covered anything up and it was the screening which was at fault. She didn't hide a high temp, and they tested her seven times before deciding she was fit to travel.

Cafferkey had worked with Ebola patients and seen them die (horribly). If she'd had any inkling she had Ebola she'd hardly have sneaked on a plane, intending to spend a couple of days at home in bed with some Beechams and a hot water bottle would she?

[recall]

Should be struck off - in her position, any hint of a temperature she should have got herself into isolation - selfish idiot. I was amazed at the time that they didn't wait until safely past the incubation period, and some thorough screening before returning home. To risk infecting a whole other continent with Ebola - unbelievable.

[Inkanta]

'NHS Managers often put blame on to frontline staff to deflect blame from their own failings.'

Yep it's very common!

[vanillaelderberry]

telling extremely tired volunteers to check their own temperatures was pure laziness

YY

[ReallyTired]

Ebola was spread by certain cultural practices like mourners set a funeral washing the body. Ebola is not air bourne, it's spread through bodily fluids like sweat, blood, faetes, vomit, spermicide etc. In west Africa there is not just a lack of doctors, but a lack of money to pay those doctors. Many Ebola victims are nursed at home in the slum they live in. The slums have no proper sewage and maybe very crowded.

I don't believe Pauline would choose to put her family's lives at risk. Would a nurse really want to risk their loved ones dying of Ebola?

I feel the issue was lack of organisation of public health England. A flight from west Africa carrying 300 people needs more than four nurses to check everyone's safety. Telling extremely tired volunteers to check their own temperatures was pure laziness.

I feel public health England should also be held up to account for their decisions on that day. (The managers of the four public England nurses, not the four nurses themselves.)

NHS Managers often put blame on to frontline staff to deflect blame from their own failings.

[giraffesCantReachTheirToes]

Why the hell would she cover it up if she thought she had ebola?! Surely she'd want treatment asap after watching so many people die agonising deaths.

[NotMe321]

IF she acted dishonestly she could have personally been responsible for hundreds, thousands of deaths, immeasurable cost and disruption

No, she wouldn't. Ebola spread so quickly in Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone largely because of inadequate health care in those countries. We have 280 doctors per 100,000 people; Guinea has 10. It also spread because of the initial dearth of knowledge about it and about how to avoid it - obviously by the time Pauline Cafferkey became ill the world had become much better informed. Of course one death would be too many, but let's not scaremonger and exaggerate.

[AllPowerfulLizardPerson]

"Are you suggesting that Pauline should check herself into the Royal free every time she had a slight headache for the rest of her life? Having a recurrence of Ebola like happened to Pauline is extremely rare."

Actually, yes if I were her care team I would be recommending pretty much that (isolation for tests, Royal Free if test results are concerning). It may be rare, but it happens to her.

[ReallyTired]

Are you suggesting that Pauline should check herself into the Royal free every time she had a slight headache for the rest of her life? Having a recurrence of Ebola like happened to Pauline is extremely rare.

[ThatsMyStapler]

The early symptoms of Ebola are just like flu. I imagine that if Pauline had no idea that her slight headache was Ebola

Wouldn't you be extra cautious though?