"Young muslims want Sharia law in the UK" - Today's telegraph

[hecciesmum]

I can't help but wonder when I read these kind of scare tactic articles .....is this 40% of all young british muslims, or 40% of young british muslim men? Why do young men seem so much angrier than young women - or arn't they?

is it just me that thinks that if women were in charge the world would be a much more peaceful place?? We reason through problems - men just want to have a good fight to sort it out - be that verbally or physically.

Ok - have probably opened up a can of worms, but....Discuss!?

Hecsmum

front page of www.telegraph.co.uk.......sorry - am crap at doing links

[Monkeytrousers]

?

[Monkeytrousers]

I was wondering about that. Is it a political statement

[uwila]

"wimmin" Oh my goodness.

[Monkeytrousers]

Women are just as prone to bigorty, violence and machismo if they are in that kind of environment - playing a man's game basically.

[strangefruit]

In response to the op

I think articles like the one in the telegraph are designed to be devisive, stir up anger and distrust, and generally make life more difficult for minority groups, they fuel racism.

as to wimmin being better at ruling the world, well, wimmin are as capable of bigotry etc, I think it would be great for wimmin to be proportionately represented in positions of power though, and in an ideal world politicians would all be honest and doing the job for the greater good and not to line their own pockets

I haven't read all the posts yet

[Blandmum]

Both these changes happened a while ago. A good few years.

it used to be that if you (as an officer) wanted to marry one of the 'other ranks' the lower ranking person had to leave the forces (I suppose in practice if could be the other way round, but pay differentials were such that the lower ranked person would normally quit). This happened to a mate of mine.

It was also the case that if a female officer got pg she had to leave for a minimum of 8 years. This also changed, over a decade ago.

Good few years for the gay rights thing.

[Monkeytrousers]

Martial law having it's own reformation then?

[Blandmum]

The death sentence isn't allowed under martial law afaicr. One of the things 'over and above' UK law is 'Conduct unbecoming' which is what the can try to get you on, if they can't 'do' you for anything else.

The bits that used to preclude officers and other ranks having sex/relationships has gone. It is now not illegal to be gay in the UK armed forces.

[Monkeytrousers]

Just a thought - how do Sharia law and martial law compare??

[Monkeytrousers]

Haha MB - or some would say bring back national service!

[Monkeytrousers]

Oh, haven't seen your yet SN. But yes I agree up to a point. I'm not sure if it's paradoxical but though I'm not religous myself, I dont' have a problem with it in a whatever gets you through the night way - but do with orgamised religion - dogma, ideology, etc.

[Monkeytrousers]

Didn't see you post Edam. I agree. It's a storm in a teacup that the media seem determined to whip up into a frenzy

[snowleopard]

Oops I wrote MB when I meant MT - but not that I diss your posts MB!

[snowleopard]

I totally agree with you MB and this is along the same lines as I posted earlier. Young men, in particular, have the potential for violence - a healthy society diverts it and organises ritualised, safe versions of it. Religious conflict, misunderstanding and prejudice give it a chance to be chanelled dangerously.

[Blandmum]

so the answer would seem to be compulsory cross country runs and lots of cold showers!

[Monkeytrousers]

Re your OP Hecciesmum, it's hormones basically. They can be channelled into competa\tive or contact sports or conflict of a less structured nature.

And I can't help thinking the British press are just giving young Muslim men their rebellion on a plate.

[Judy1234]

Lots of people in the UK subject themselves by choice to religious law. I got my marriage annulled in teh Catholic church. Jews have some disputes decided by the Beth Din and some Muslims use local religious leaders to held determine matters. That's our choice but it runs along side secular state law, not in place of it which some people might prefer.

A lot of our English law of course is based on Christianity - used to be a criminal offence to try to kill yourself or to have gay sex or abort a child as well as to kill and the usual offences common to most religions. There is no chance the UK will adopt or give effect as a final decision however to a religious court in most cases. In the last month a marriage in Israel with a binding prenuptial under Israeli law - the prenup was held enforceable here and it was agreed the woman had agreed to have matters about finances in the marriage dealt with in Israel - so that was an agreement to accept jurisdiction elsewhere but a slightly separate point.

[Blandmum]

But I do feel that fear of discussion, that is open , honest and polite, can be just as counter productive as ranting without manners!

You'd get into a 'don't mention the war' sort of thing.

There are huge abuses of Sharia law that happen world wide. Not discussing then is the half sister to pretending they don't happen. We should be able to discuss them, as also to discuss the safe guards that are actually in place within the law itself. I'm sure your gay muslim friends do just that. It is lack of discussion, and crucily the lack of understanding of women's rights within Islam that allow situations like Nigeria to happen.

FWIW I don't belive that any mortal wo/man has sufficient wisdom to carry out the death penalty, or amputations, or beatings with sufficient detachment, lack of bias and accuracy. No matter where you find them, and regardless of the justification, social or religious that is given.

I don't feel the fear of islamophobia should quash a discussion, any more than the fear of antisemitism should

[Blu]

nor do I...not yours specifically.
But acumulative effect of multiple voices and outrage..

I wish I could find a very illuminating piece of philosphy a MN-er once posted - about the nature of discussions and ownership and understanding and resistance.

[Blandmum]

I don't have a problem with my 'tone'

[Blu]

No, I don't!
But I bet before long the inevitable discussion would lead to Sharia law as practiced in places other than Palestine! (via a discussion about the responsibility of hammas...mercy, humanity, revenge and retribution, draconian regimes - whether Isreal is one - mercy / humanity / brutal regimes practicing Sharia law...BINGO! And the poor palestinian labouring woman is still being a woman first, palestinian, muslim..).

It's a tone.

I really should shut up.

[Blandmum]

I fully agree with you that we have to ask, why , they want Sharia

But I don';t think we ahould avoid discussing these things, as long as it is done in a calm, polite way. That is how people get to understand each other better.

Look, a similar case. I'll put next months money on the fact that the vast majority of Jewish people in the UK would be horrified if a muslim woman was prevented from crossing a line and getting medical care while in labour. Should we not discuss the fact that this happens to palistinian women in Isreal for fear of being accused of anti semitism? I don't think we should, do you?

[Blu]

I'm not trying to hush-up truths, MB - honestly. (though my Nigerian collegue tells me that the state government routinely qushes the sharia court rulings for stonings...and that woman who was the subject of big petitions was not stoned - it is a political tension between the ruling chritian-based states, and some muslim regions). I am horrified by the plight of women in Iranian jails, the young woman hanged for 'immorality' etc - and all regimes use all sorts of justifications for horrifc acts.

But in the absense of acknowledgement that lovely reaspnable peple are also muslims, and a climate of 'mad muslim' news stories, it sometimes looks like muslim-bashing.

Don't know what the answer is.

I'll just leave it all alone from now on I think.

[PeachyClair]

Fuzzy, the Apostasy thing I didn't relaise but I will check tomorrow as I was told that by my professor of Islam and a I have a class tomorrow .

[Blandmum]

I think that part of the reason that the discussion goes this way is that sharia law is missued in some islamic states. I fully accept that it should be imporrible to get a 'real' conviction of adultery, under the safegaurds that are in place 4 witnesses eyc. However that doesn't stop women being put to death in Nigeria, or thrown in prizon in Pakistan (1/4 of all women in prison are there because of adultery crimes)

And as a woman I think this is indefensible. And while I'll fully accept that the majority of muslims in the UK would not like to see this happen here, I still think we should discuss it.

PD once discribed Sharia law, as 'beautiful'. I feel I have the right to show its less attractive aspects