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News

Auschwitz Theft

150 replies

OurBlanche · 29/12/2015 16:37

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-35194290

Why? They were going to be fined for being stupid and thoughtless. Now they are going to try and make people believe that attending one of the 'best' prep schools in the UK neglects to educate its pupils on the long term cultural significance of Auschwitz, whilst arranging an edcaational trip to, erm, Auschwitz.

Why? They were 17, not 7. The guards, curators, legal system and the school had all acknowledged that the usual expediency of a fine, suspended sentence and sound telling off would be appropriate. End of story, silly boys.

Now what? Are they going to defend themselves by saying they couldn't be expected to know that anything inside Auschwitz might have been anything important? Oh yes! They are: The teenagers have withdrawn their admission of guilt, explaining that they were not aware that the items had special cultural significance.

What's that phrase? More money than sense...

OP posts:

Report

OurBlanche · 30/12/2015 12:51

What does Radio2 think of it? I missed it... but I can clearly visualise the extreme takes on it

OP posts:

Caprinihahahaha · 30/12/2015 13:34

Everyone's ok with school children being called 'arrogant scum' then. And 'maximum sentence 10 years. Fingers crossed'.

Fair enough.

OurBlanche · 30/12/2015 13:35

So... that one sentence form one poster defines us all, does it?

Well done!

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ProjectPerfect · 30/12/2015 13:47

"Shit for brains"
"Arrogant scum"
"Hope their future cards are marked"

Plus weirdo comment about hoping they pissed themselves

If they were kids from a local comp there would be a whole different reaction.

Caprinihahahaha · 30/12/2015 13:52

I wasn't defining every poster . I posted quite early in the thread and was commenting on a tone which always appears in 'private school kids behave like tools' threads. There is a special level of indignation afforded private school kids who fuck up. Always a certain joy when drugs are found at private schools and a weird tone I can't quite define when a pupil at a private school commits suicide. It's a sort of a 'what a waste' tone mingled with a sort of suggestion that they had no reason to be depressed/suicidal.

Also, whilst I appreciate the 'well done' it was two comments from two posters
There was also 'they get their stupidity from their parents' and 'bollocking them until they piss themselves' which was quite the visual. I wish I could think of an occasion when it would be useful.

OurBlanche · 30/12/2015 13:56

Not from me! I started the thread because I was surprised they had changed their plea.

I know the school. The original report surprised me, their flimsy defence seemed unlikely, unbelievable... I would have said that about any school, using the same words in my OP.

The bit you can hang on me is more money than sense But I think that is justified as any kid from a bog standard comp wouldn't have the cash to mount such a defence!

ANY person caught in such circumstances has only 1 option, admit guilt and apologise for their stupidity. They did this, so all was well!

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pieceofpurplesky · 30/12/2015 13:59

Regardless of wealth or education - at 17 you know it is not appropriate behaviour and know the significance of the artefacts. There is no arguing this point.
What, I think, has irritated people is the fact the parents are rich enough to take this through court to overturn a ruling that the teens admitted to. This just makes a mockery of what they did. An apology for disrespectful behaviour and acceptance of the punishment given is what most people would do.

Caprinihahahaha · 30/12/2015 13:59

I never suggested it was from you.

OurBlanche · 30/12/2015 14:00

But many posters had pointed out that they too disagreed with that post, Caprini. Yet you persisted with

Everyone's ok with school children being called 'arrogant scum' then. And 'maximum sentence 10 years. Fingers crossed'.

Fair enough.

The answer was evident, no not ^everyone was OK with the comment - and had said so.

The "Well done" was in a similar vein to your "Fair enough". Don't use such terminology if you don't like it being turned back on you!

No one is disagreeing that the actions of the 2 boys was questionable, but nor is everyone blaming it on posh parents.

OP posts:

OurBlanche · 30/12/2015 14:02

Initially, Caprini I was responding to ProjectPerfect If they were kids from a local comp there would be a whole different reaction ... we cross posted (a few times now, it seems)

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Caprinihahahaha · 30/12/2015 14:07

The 'everyone's ok with' was in response to the two posts quoting my comments and asking what I was on about - was I reading the same thread, it's all fine and dandy.
I was just quoting the snippets that had drawn my eye.

I'm really not worried about the terminology of well done. You seem a bit upset though. It's really not a big deal is it - a disagreement on a chat board.

Here, have a gin.

Caprinihahahaha · 30/12/2015 14:08

It's late evening here btw . I'm not suggesting getting pissed at lunchtime.

OurBlanche · 30/12/2015 14:14

I'll take the gin for later, thanks

I am a bit upset, yes. I was at the time. Like many others I had relatives who died there and a GGP who survived one of the other camps. I found myself taking this a little bit more personally than maybe I should.

And even that sounds too po-faced to be me, to be honest. I don't usually do that, but this has bothered me!

The bottom line is, as others have said better than I have, the original behaviour was bad enough but the idea that they are now trying to claim ignorance as a defence, despite having been well educated, has annoyed me more.

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NotDavidTennant · 30/12/2015 14:17

"The grapevine is that they say they were picking the bits up to take to show the guards/museum staff but there was some sort of misunderstanding and they were arrested before they could."

This explanation doesn't make any sense to me. Who picks up exhibits at an historical site? Why would they be showing them to museum staff who have presumably seen them hundreds of times before?

This may reflect my own prejudices, but I suspect their are wealthy parents hoping to use their money to steamroll the Polish justice system here. It's how the rich always deal with the justice system: never admit to anything and instruct some shit hot lawyers to get you off the charge by any means necessary.

Caprinihahahaha · 30/12/2015 14:18

That's fair enough Blanche and I'm genuinely sorry the incident has upset you.

I hope you understand I am not minimising the idea that they should not have behaved so.

FinestGrundyTurkey · 30/12/2015 14:36

I don't expect them to be given a 10 year jail term.

I do hope that, given the sensible outcome in June, now that they have retracted their admission of guilt & claimed ignorance of the significance of the items they 'picked up' they will be given a stiffer sentence.

The BBC report (& most other reports) at the time said

'A spokesman said: "We understand they have explained that they picked up the items without thinking, and they have apologised unreservedly for the offence they have given, and expressed real remorse for their action "'

My italics.

So were they lying in June? Or do they think lying now is a better alternative? Either way they come out of it very badly, & so do their parents & other advisers. Nothing to do with the status of the school.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 30/12/2015 14:41

I think they must have found them on the ground. I dont remember anyof the exhibitions having open displays.

OurBlanche · 30/12/2015 14:44

www.ibtimes.co.uk/auschwitz-theft-15000-year-perse-public-schoolboys-face-trial-stealing-holocaust-artefacts-1535404

One of them seems to have started work in a museum, so that makes it even more strange, if, as he is quoted, he now has a better understanding of artefacts.

I don't suppose the Polish court is relishing this either! They had a neat and reasonable solution that sent an educational message.

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FinestGrundyTurkey · 30/12/2015 15:18

The warehouse 'Canada' was burnt down by the Nazis at the end of the war & the remains of the items inside it are still on/in the ground on the site. This is where they're reported to have found the buttons etc. There are remnants like that all over Auschwitz apparently (& also signs saying 'don't pick anything up' all over Auschwitz )

I have a son who did all manner of idiotic (& some probably criminal ) things in his teens but when he went to Auschwitz aged 17 he was shocked, moved & respectful, & wouldn't have dreamed of taking anything.

Dipankrispaneven · 30/12/2015 15:57

I did wonder whether they might conceivably have thought it was helpful to pick things up if they believed that they were historically significant artefacts that the museum staff had missed. But if there are signs everywhere saying don't pick things up, that would seem to remove that possibility, so I can only think the explanation is that they don't want a conviction on their records.

Can they be tried in their absence? All the reports say they "face a trial" but doesn't that depend on their going back to Poland or being extradited?

Andrewofgg · 30/12/2015 17:30

This prosecution must be in Poland. You cannot be prosecuted in England for a crime committed abroad; there are a few exceptions but note that applies here.

scaevola · 30/12/2015 17:57

Are you sure?

The Dealing in Cultural Objects Act 2003 covers the removal of objects as well as actually flogging them, and applies equally to objects illegally excavated or removed in the UK and objects illegally excavated or removed outside the UK.

But if they're going to Poland for trial, I think it's quite likely that the English authorities would conclude they should not be re-tried for an offence which had already been prosecuted in another EU state.

Andrewofgg · 30/12/2015 18:13

It only applies to things done outside the UK in the case of agreement or conspiracy outside the UK - and I think the DPP might regard it as a bit heavy-handed to treat them like international art-smugglers.

scaevola · 30/12/2015 18:16

thanks!

Pepperpot99 · 30/12/2015 19:47

These two young men are suffering from what is now referred to as "affluenza" - which is being incapable of understanding the consequences of your actions because of your massive and lifelong sense of entitlement, ego and privilege. It is a legal preserve of the rich and has been used by US lawyers in recent court cases in the States and I expect these two chaps' lawyers will use affluenza as a key part of their defence. I kid you not.

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