New sandwich factory seeks workers from Hungary, says not enough locals applied

[claig]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2827625/Factory-bosses-forced-recruit-Hungary-locals-not-apply.html

What type of contracts are on offer? Could it be zero contract etc?

[Isitmebut]

Claig …. Again, nice ‘many not the few’ pro socialist/trade union little speech there as clearly the UKIP ‘policy of the month’, is to pretend an elite FTSE UKIP backer, an elite ex city UKIP leader, and a party that in 2010 clearly thought a 31p Flat Tax rate was ‘fair’ for the lower paid – is now the party of the working class. Hmmmm.

The ‘widgy making jobs are projected in early 2016, anything could happen by then, including a May 2015 Labour/UKIP coalition, killing business investment stone dead, including this factory that if all their costs of doing business rise, might as well OPEN in Hungary .

[Isitmebut]

WetAugust … Re “more interested in the deepening democratic deficit in the European parliament”; based on the thread, I assumed that the 24 highly paid waste of space 24 UKIP MEP’s, can’t get the depth of sandwich choice they demand, to dip into their lunch time beers into.

So now the UKIP propaganda wants us to believe that Cameron is totally responsible for EU policy, Junckers and the other 27 members policy making and that he letting the war dead down.

Pathetic politicking, yet every time Cameron speaks up against the flow you’re on here saying he is totally useless as he is hissing against the wind – while those 24 UKIP MEP’s can change, what? How they change lunch time eatery with their £3,500 a month expenses paid into their account whether claimed or not?

And your/UKIP’s version of real democracy, is having Stuart Wheeler setting UKIP policies, hiring back bench Conservative MPs and trying to change UK laws the security services need e.g. the EAW, where terrorists are the target, not the abuse of power to stop a child get medical help in Europe, that can be stopped.

“Stuart Wheeler (born 30 January 1935) is a British businessman and politician. He made his fortune as the founder of the spread betting firm IG Index in 1974, but is best known for his political activism,[1] being formerly a major donor to the Conservative Party and, since 2011, treasurer of the United Kingdom Independence Party.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Wheeler

[WetAugust]

more interested in the deepening democratic deficit in the European Parliament

Junckers has now said that MEPs can vote FOR a proposal or can ABSTAIN. They are not allowed to vote AGAINST. Those votes sill not be counted.

And we sacrificed British lives to bring democracy go Iraq, Afghanistan.......... and we put up with this crap.

No Dave, I will not "move on" as you would prefer I find.

This is a rotten government and Im glad that Wheeler has now lodged his High Court action against the EAW

[claig]

'Clearly you agree with the trade unions, that better NOT have those 1% of all UK jobs, rather than allow those happy with them (possibly above the minimum wage), to have them. Got it.'

Absolutely, I agree with the trades unions, because I believe in what is best for the many and not the few. I want salaries and terms and conditions to rise so that the majority benefit, not to fall because some people are prepared to accept those conditions which then end up as the norm for everyone. Then employers will not have to go to Eastern Europe to recruit workers but will be able to find workers here.

[Isitmebut]

Oh god, more UKIP propaganda..... in or out of the "Westminster bubble", the problems of the country are the same, they are being fixed, and a UKIP set of policies lucky to see their first birthday, are clearly no answer to anything useful.

Re Zero Hours, similar to Mr Miliband at PMQT , I suspect that you prepared that last speech before you read my last post, including in depth analysis of the pro's and con's of a Zero Hour Contract that needs reform - I assume you have checked to see if the present government has any reforms on the agenda, as I have not (yet)?

Clearly you agree with the trade unions, that better NOT have those 1% of all UK jobs, rather than allow those happy with them (possibly above the minimum wage), to have them. Got it.

[claig]

And this Daily Mail article about sandwiches is not a joke. Going to Hungary to find workers is not a joke. We are being systematically deindustrialised, our manufacturing is declining, our young people can't afford to buy homes in London and in many other places, our students are in debt up to their eyeballs, many people are paying extortionate rates of interest to payday loan companies, and zero hour contracts are becoming more prevalent.

Middle classes are being squeezed and we are told that millions more jobs will disappear in the future.

"The robots are coming: One in three UK jobs are at 'high risk' of being replaced by machines in the next 20 years
Lowest paid workers most at risk of being replaced
Clerical and support roles are endangered, as well as transportation jobs
Workers and employers must adapt now to the changing demands on the workforce, report warns"


www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2828370/The-robots-coming-One-three-UK-jobs-high-risk-replaced-machines-20-years.html

What sort of future is this? One of slavery where people will have to scrabble for a few hours work on zero hour contracts while city types rent out flats that cost thousands per week and our political class of PPEs and barristers do nothing about it?

[claig]

Why do you think the entire political class is viewed with quai-contempt by millions of people out there outside the Westminster bubble? It's because we all know these people are not on our side. And that explains why millions are sticking their fingers up and voting UKIP.

"Only 1% of Guardian readers support Ukip

Millar kicked off by suggesting that only 1% of Guardian readers identified themselves as Ukip supporters. “Since we have 100 seats here?” he asked looking around. “I’m the one!” bellowed one man at the back, to laughter. A lifelong Labour Party member until the Iraq war, the man said he would never become a member of Ukip, but the party was forging issues to the forefront. “Please don’t be complacent. You may be right, Ukip may never come into power; I hope it doesn’t, in many ways. But I see them as a protest vote.”

One elderly man took the microphone. “What is happening out there? Why do we not have a revolution, with all the poverty?” he said, his voice wavering. “We’re voting for a Tory austerity or a Labour austerity. We don’t do revolutions here; we vote Ukip.”

www.theguardian.com/membership/2014/nov/11/the-rise-of-ukip-what-we-learnt

[claig]

"The number of workers in jobs without any guarantee of regular hours or pay nearly doubled during last year to reach 200,000, according to data from the Office for National Statistics.

The contracts – now used by almost a quarter of Britain's major employers - legally allow firms to employ staff, often in low paid jobs, without any guarantee of actual work, or income."

It's an absolute disgrace that everything the unions fought for for a century is being undermined and the so-called Labour Party of barrister, millionaires and PPEs allowed it to happen. Other European countries have laws to protect their workers and our business fat cats can get away with nearly anything as our rights are stripped from us.

"Sarah Veale, of the TUC, said: "It is a sign of desperation that people will take anything at the moment...we're not valuing people, we're just looking at them as industrial fodder"

Others have defended the contracts, claiming they are keeping people in work who would otherwise be unemployed.

They are used by the Co-op – which employs around a fifth of its funeral staff this way - the House of Lords, Boots, Bupa, Cineworld, Centerparcs, and the NHS."

[Isitmebut]

And the Conservatives were, when from 1997 our main EU morphing to superstate and UK financial, debt, economic, immigration, social, social services and housing problems got far worse – so too much UKIP ‘Westminster elite’, over the party/policy facts, for obvious reasons.

Re Zero Hours, I say the trade union preference of pay rates over job creation, which is no ‘what come first, the chicken or egg’ conundrum, is a bit extreme as apparently some people WANT them, it suits their industry/life/work-style .

In most of Europe, part of their hiring problem, is that it is tough to ever let go an employee, so companies have to wait until they see a cast iron country/industry recovery before hiring someone – so they can’t take the chance, potential workers don’t get a chance of ANY employment.

Clearly Europe vs Zero Hours are at different ends of the employment scale, so on balance, I’d suggest REFORMS of ZH contracts.

FYI when I looked at this subject a while ago, I found this in depth study which had the overview, conclusions and recommendations – but I have no idea if being looked at as I write.

"Number of Britons on 'zero hours' contracts hits record high"

"Record numbers of British workers are being employed on "zero hours" contracts which keep staff on standby and deny them regular hours, official figures disclose."
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9968124/Number-of-Britons-on-zero-hours-contracts-hits-record-high.html

[claig]

"you were the one saying "there is so much wrong in this country"

There is, but it has nothing to do with UKIP as they aren't in power.

I think that Unite are right in their campaign Say No to Zero Hours Contracts

www.unitetheunion.org/campaigning/saynotozerohourscontracts/

[Isitmebut]

Claig .... you were the one saying "there is so much wrong in this country", and how much Public Sector/low paid workers are suffering as if you had a magic dust solution - when the party you keep telling us about, would have made their plight far worse.

As it happens, in the 'proven success' department (and may I remind you of the European figures above), I'd suggest the UKIP brewery is now very wet, having been pissed on by the coalition, from a great height.

(Nov 12th) UK Unemployment Stays at 6% as Wage Growth Accelerates.
www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-12/u-k-unemployment-stays-at-6-as-wage-growth-accelerates.html

“Unemployment fell by 115,000 to 1.96 million, marking the smallest decline since the three months to February, while the number of people in work climbed 112,000 to 30.8 million.”

”Excluding bonuses, pay growth accelerated 0.4 percentage point to 1.3 percent, beating consumer-price inflation for the first time since September 2009, the ONS said. Inflation stands at 1.2 percent.”

According to the ONS this is the 18th consecutive fall in UK unemployment, and the HIGHEST number in employment since records began in 1971.

Still loads to do, what a shame the UKIP 'piss up' in 2015, will spoil the party.

[claig]

This thread is not about UKIP or its tax policy.

If you want to know how UKIP tax and economic policy will get the country out of the mess that the Tories have landed us in, then please start another thread.

A thread based on the valid Daily Mail question "Is there anyone left in Britain who can make a sandwich?" is not the place to discuss the intricacies of UKIP tax policy, just as the question "Is there any moderniser left among the Tories who can organise a piss-up in a brewery?" isn't either.

[Isitmebut]

Claig … the Coalition don’t need any ‘recession, wot recession’ lectures from UKIP on the NHS, nurses or any other LOW PAID workers, as based on UKIP’s last published General Election manifesto, UKIP wanted to slash the public sector numbers, freeze their pensions for many years, and set a 31p Flat Tax/NI rate for workers paying a much lower basic rate now.

“At-a-glance: UKIP general election manifesto”
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8617187.stm

• Reduce public sector to 1997 size, diverting two million jobs to manufacturing and industry

• Freeze public sector pensions, bringing them "back into line with typical private sector pension provision".

• Raise tax-free threshold on income to £11,500, followed by a flat rate of 31% to replace current income tax and employees' National Insurance (NI)

Claig ... please explain how a UKIP start rate of tax of 31%, would have helped the lower and middle paid classes in the parliament 2010 to 2015 - during a honking great recession seeing 'real' earnings fall - should UKIP have been elected to government back then?

Otherwise your post after post here saying it is the the 'Westminster elite' is 'out of touch' and UKIP has the answers, seems rather....well...lets say disingenuous at best.

[WetAugust]

It's just a symptom of how far the pendulum has swung in favour of business and to the detriment of the ordinary working person.

What we need is a party that puts the working person first. Historically, that was the role of Labour. Now Labour (like the rest of the LibLabCon) is just a vehicle for rich publically education kids with a PPE degree.

Even Mrs T appreciated that people wanted to work in order to own their own homes etc.

Mere pipe dreams for most of the workforce today.

[claig]

Yes, there is so much wrong in this country.

Not paying workers for travel time in between visiting patients is just another disgrace and seems to me a bit like this zero hours thing where you only get paid for the time that they deem you are working.

Why isn't sorting this out for people a priority for politicians?

MPs are supposed to be representatives of the people not representatives for business.

[edamsavestheday]

Potentially good news re. Care UK, then. Disgraceful the way people working with some of the most vulnerable are treated - social care really is in a terrible state. 15 minute visits are inhumane, and paying staff under minimum wage (by not counting travel between clients) is also plain wrong.

We've been short of, IIRC, 4,000 midwives for several years now. As the birth rate has climbed, and the proportion of complex pregnancies have increased, midwife numbers have not kept pace - despite repeated promises from ministers.

The NHS has been recruiting from overseas for many years now. Big ethical issue about denuding developing countries of doctors and nurses v. countries perhaps benefiting from remittances...

[claig]

I only heard about this the other day. How much is going on under our noses that most people have not heard about? Is anyone on the side of the people?

"More than 60 carers for the disabled holding one of the longest strikes in the health service were celebrating on Saturday night as a private equity-owned employer offered a pay deal set to “pave the way” to the end of the industrial action.

After 90 days of strikes by staff transferred from the NHS to work for Care UK on wages cut by up to 35% , the care workers are now set to vote on an offer."

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/08/care-uk-workers-celebrate-pay-offer-strikes

[claig]

You are probably right, WetAugust, I don't know the details.

But here is something about midwives. It is just not good enough for millions of hardworking people.

"One in four midwives thinking of quitting

Nearly a quarter of midwives are considering leaving profession because of resentment over pay and conditions"

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/10439666/One-in-four-midwives-thinking-of-quitting.html

Midwives aren't asking for the moon, just decent wages and conditions. Is that too much to ask, when MPs claimed for moats and heating their stables and flipped their homes out of hardworking taxpayer money?

[WetAugust]

Those nursing numbers are open to interpretation Claig. I wouldn't read too much into them. I

[edamsavestheday]

Good employers pay their workers a living wage. Bad employers think they can dump the costs on the rest of us, by paying workers so little they have to turn to tax credits, housing benefit etc. to survive.

I'd like to know what the pay, terms and conditions of these jobs are and what attempt the company has made to recruit locally. TBH I wouldn't fancy standing at an assembly line for 12 solid hours, it would be exhausting, and for less than it costs to pay the rent and household bills?

[claig]

"Exclusive: Numbers choosing to leave nursing rise by 26%

25 November, 2013 | By Shaun Lintern


The numbers of nurses actively choosing to leave the profession has jumped 26% since the coalition government came into power, Nursing Times can reveal."

www.nursingtimes.net/nursing-practice/specialisms/management/exclusive-numbers-choosing-to-leave-nursing-rise-by-26/5065685.article

What are they going to do next, go to Eastern Europe to find nurses? It's time they started paying hardworking dedicated people what they deserve.

They should slash their modernisers' ring-fenced foreign aid budget, HS2, green taxes, taxpayer subsidies to aristocrats to erect windfarms, subsidisation of lobbying groups and charidees out of taxpayer money and the House of Commons subsidised bar to pay for it.

[AGnu]

First thing I thought when I saw the story was - if the lack of unemployment in the area means they can't get workers... why didn't they open their factory somewhere where there are people in need of jobs?!

[claig]

"Five million paid less than living wage, says KPMG"

"One in five workers in the UK is paid less than required for a basic standard of living, a report has said.

The proportion is much higher among waiters and bar staff, at up to 90% of workers, the research for accountants KPMG suggested.

It said that nearly five million people failed to command the living wage - a pay packet that enabled a basic standard of living.

The rate stands at £8.30 an hour in London and £7.20 in the rest of the UK.

This rate is voluntary, unlike the National Minimum Wage - the amount that employers must pay by law, which is set at £6.19 an hour for those aged 21 and over."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20104177

It is rubbish to say that people are too lazy to work for the minimum wage, because millions do work for that because in many cases those are the only jobs on offer. That is why I would like to know what the terms and conditions of these sandwich making jobs are.

If the firm can afford to build a £35 million factory, then it must be able to pay wages that attract local workers.

It is not about cutting benefits to get people into work because millions already work for minimum wage. And going to Eastern Europe to find workers just allows employers to get away with not offering attractive enough employment terms and conditions for local people to earn a living wage so that they can pay their bills and live a decent life.

[Isitmebut]

Claig ... re Farage in Westminster and sandwiches .... may I point out Mr Farage in Westminster, wants to take the taxpayers 'lunch' as well.

“Nigel Farage calls for MP pay rise to £100,000 - just weeks before announcing where he will stand in 2015”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-calls-for-mp-pay-rise-to-100000--just-weeks-before-announcing-where-he-will-stand-in-2015-9593756.html

[Isitmebut]

WetAugust ..... Re your unqualified statement about companies 'abusing the system' that assumes they are paying under the going rate - where there are other companies that ARE paying more.

“Thousands of low-paid Britons set for pay rise”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29870309

”Thousands of UK workers are set for a pay rise after a surge in the number of companies signed up to the Living Wage.”

”The number of companies has more than doubled in the last year, meaning 35,000 low-paid workers will see their pay rise when the wage is increased on Monday, Citizens UK said.”

“UK 'living wage' raised to £7.85 an hour”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29873409

”The UK "living wage" - an hourly rate based on the amount needed to cover the basic costs of living - has been raised by 20p to £7.85.”

”The voluntary wage - set by the Living Wage Foundation - is now 21% higher than the compulsory National Minimum Wage, which is currently £6.50 an hour.”

”The rate in London will rise from £8.80 an hour to £9.15, the mayor, Boris Johnson, announced.”

”However, some business groups said employers might struggle to pay it.”

”The living wage has been adopted by more than 1,000 employers across the country, benefiting 35,000 workers”

Not many I grant you, but relative to Europe (who we very much rely on for around 50% of our trade), who do you think has the chance over the next year of increasing earnings, the UK, or the Eurozone, with nearly twice our unemployment and economically stagnating?

P.S. To many, a job is socially more than just a pay-slip, so you clearly neither understand the external pressures of running a small to medium sized company, or relief/self respect of not having to claim a Job Seekers allowance etc.