CSA reform - single parents to pay to use service - to be very angry!!

[timefliesby]

www.gingerbread.org.uk/news_detail.aspx?ID=235

So, the government is closing all existing child maintenance cases over the next three years and washing its hands of the £3.5 billion it has FAILED to collect on behalf of single parents. They say they'd like to give separated parents "the chance to come to a private arrangement" or failing that, all those single parents - you know, the ones that aren't getting anything for their children - to PAY to use the CSA. Yes that's right...pay to use the service which has FAILED to collect £3.5 billion owed. But just to hoodwink you into thinking you're getting a new service they'll rebrand it the CMS (wonder how much that's costing?).

Here's a revolutionary thought...the parents that are on friendly enough terms to agree a private arrangement have got a private arrangement already. Which harebrained, ignorant, idiot sat and looked at it and went "I know...we'll just get them to agree it between themselves"...no matter that some of them may have escaped just about with their limbs in place or endured years of control freak behaviour from the non-resident parent.

WHAT A JOKE!!!!

It used to be with the jurisdiction of the courts, because the only language these non-resident parents actually understand is "the bailiffs are going to be sent in" or "you will be going to prison.. if you don't adequately contribute to your children's upkeep."

Then the CSA came along and children suffered for it...now it's the CMS which is basically just the government's excuse to wash their hands of the whole debacle because which cash strapped, single parent can afford to pay for a service that fails to actually secure them any financial contribution towards their children???

Oh and the £3.5 billion is much lower than the figure would be had they actually made a maintenance decision on all those self employed fathers claiming they live on £600 a month whilst owning several companies...

DISCUSS PLEASE!

[Lioninthesun]

Yes, privatisation looking possible under Tories in the long run.
I haven't actually seen any party with policies relating to this or single parents at all.

I'll look out for your threads. Any chance you could set out some bullet points covering all aspects so I cn copy and paste don't put CSA in instead of tax evasion team/govt body any more (re-read through my posts and I kept doing it without thinking!) into a letter for MP?

Best way to keep momentum is to keep thrashing it out of diff boards I think. That way you can have an answer for everything

[YoureBeingASillyBilly]

Eeek! Me start a thread in that scary politics place?



Ok i can do that, am heading out now but will sit down later and try and form a few coherent sentences!

[CookieMother]

Personally I just want something that I can argue without getting shouted down and told that I'm a 'man-hating woman'. I'm actually very balanced thank you very much and I hate being told that I'm the opposite just because it's about child maintenance. Which happens basically whenever I bring it up so I'm careful about it.

(which is why I went off on one before - sorry about that )

This can't be mistaken for that and uses laws already in place. Which means it's already something that's accepted. So we're half way there to convincing people

[AskBasil]

I posted this on the other thread but as it's funny, thought I'd post it here too. Mark Steel on CSA changes.

[fedupbutfine]

oh that's fabulous, Basil. And it's written by a man. A man!!!!

[Lioninthesun]

Love the link Basil !
We do need some fish fingers actually...

[CaptChaos]

Love the link Basil

I don't think even the Russian Mafia would have been able to get a penny out of my ex, they certainly won't now, he's dead.

[timefliesby]

YBASB so to clarify for me.
The government takes a % child tax out of the income of each parent when a child is born. This gets added to child benefit and paid back to the parent who receives CB. Whilst they are a couple all is well and dandy they just share this money in bringing up said child. If they spit up, the money gets paid to the resident parent? There's no hassle, no setting up cases etc.
It sounds like it would work for PAYE but we come unstuck again on self-employed NRPs I think as Lion said.
But in any case it sounds like it would be a more efficient system for some.
What do we do about self-employed NRPs?
I applied for a variation through the CSA. I have given some pretty strong evidence that he is living beyond what would be possible on a £10k annual salary. Including details of his shiny car - cost and insurance cost, company assets, bank statements from the pay roll account showing £62k going into his personal account. Company numbers and evidence of diversion of money via loans that were paid back to friends at 48% interest and money paid for "bookkeeping" to family members.
Each time, the CSA has forwarded on my evidence, causing me no end of grief and threats.
Last week when I rang them, they said they were waiting for his tax return from last year. I asked why they would be waiting for that when they know that that will show nothing as he can manage his income. They said that's all they can take into account. So why then, have they asked me to send in all this evidence causing me much personal hassle and grief if they can't take it into account? Which is it? It makes me so mad.
Meanwhile, whilst they've been stalling, he has moved all of his company profits into an account in his father's name. Who is retired and doesn't live here half the year.
Can this be taken as diversion of assets? Not according to the CSA.
So how do we bring these people to task? Their tax returns show nothing.

[timefliesby]

Also loved the link Basil

[flameprincess]

I got a bit lost reading the entire thread, but have seen a worrying amount of posts about their partner being 'crippled' by CSA payments.

Fact is 15% for 1 child, 20% for 2 etc would NOT be the real cost of raising a child and is a perfectly reasonable amount to expect. It is the bare minimum.

Those with 'crippling' charges will be those who have avoided paying in the past and racked up arrears thus having the last resort 30% and 40% liabilities being enforced.

Pay correctly and on time.

[Happybeard]

I don't get the "crippling" thing either. But not do I understand the assertion that 15/20% is NOT the cost of raising a child. I get 200 off my ex for our one daughter. Soon to be one £0 as we're moving to 50/50. there's no way I spend £400 on her. She's 8 though, I can see how teens are more expensive.

I think it's when people start talking about rent and bills etc, forgetting that the NRP has those costs too if there is contact and he needs a room/ clothes etc for the child as well.

[AskBasil]

The cost of having a child isn't simply how much you spend on their clothes, electricity, housing, childcare, transport etc. It's also the cost in terms of your marketability and earning potential.

If you have a vagina, you will earn less on average in the workplace, than if you have a penis.

If you then have a child, you will earn even less because as soon as women have children, they are seen as less marketable and less valuable to the workplace, while men in fact are seen as more desirable - they are more committed, more grown up, more responsible, more reliable. They are given gravitas and credibility by becoming fathers. While women are given flakiness and unreliable by becoming mothers. This happens even if you go back to work full time after maternity leave and you live with a man who does an equal share of parenting.

If you have a child and you do not live with another adult who can co-share the actual time it takes to look after children, your options in terms of career are far more limited. You are more likely to need to take lower status, lower paid jobs with flexible working options etc., so that you can function as a mother as well as a worker. That is true of any woman who has children of course, as most men still don't do their fair share of parenting, but it is even more true of women who do not live with the fathers of their children. Their actual and potential income is severely impacted by bringing up children on their own. Maintenance doesn't recognise this and apparently lots of people don't either.

[timefliesby]

Well said Basil. This is absolutely right. And in my case he moved us away from my old work place (which was happy to pay a decent wage for part time work) because his job was more important.

[YoureBeingASillyBilly]

lioninthesun and any others who were interested i have created a thread in politics called "a fairer way to support children" to discuss the idea i mentioned upthread of a 'child tax' for both parents. Sorry i'm not sure how to do links but it is in politics.

[Lioninthesun]

Happy NRP does also have the set up costs of housing/rent, however they have more options open to them on this front. They can house share, rent a smaller flat/property or have a partner pay half or all of their rent. The option of having a new partner is greatly increased by the fact they are not the RP and therefore can socialise freely and the new partner will not have to worry about their children, apart from on contact days (if NRP has contact at all).

[Lioninthesun]

Sorry Silly meant to add to my last post that I found your new thread

[Happybeard]

I appreciate all of that. I can see the more children you have the less choices you'll have and the more restrictions you'll have if you are the RP. But it's not a blanket thing. I've only got one and 15% of mine and my ex's income combined, ie £400, is more than enough to cover the cost of raising our dd so far. When there were childcare costs of around 1200 a month I had 80% of that covered by TC and he topped up half of the remaining amount and so did I.
All circumstances are different of course and if your ex earns crap money then 15% won't be enough. But had you stayed together he would have been a poor contributor too. But the claim that it isn't enough full stop isn't accurate. Quite often it is.
What we're left with is the A.Holes who hide their income.

[timefliesby]

There's a new petition started on you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/make-child-maintenance-support-fairer please sign

[joolesindigo]

Just got off the phone to the b***s. They want me to pay 20 pounds of my own money AND give them 4% of any money I receive, AND I have to monitor payments and report to them if he doesn't cough up. An utter joke.
I first applied to the CSA in 2002. To date I have received a grand sum of 400 pounds. My son will be 17 this year. I think I have probably spent more on phone calls and letters to my MP over the years than I have received.

[mummyg1968]

I am stunned by this development. In Wales our 3 priorities are literacy, numeracy and poverty. Welsh Government pumping millions into tackling CHILD POVERTY.... is it me or can no one see the link here??? Lone parents struggling to give their children breakfast before school...Come on!

[Viviennemary]

I don't see why the money can't just be taken out of salaries the same as student loan payments are taken. Once a formal amount has been agreed. I know this won't help ex partners of self employed people or people who go abroad. But it's almost as if paying towards your own children is a choice. It isn't. I haven't had any dealings personally with the CSA but you only have to read MN to see how useless they are.